Club Triumph

After suffering my second breakdown in 30 years with my 13/60 Ive been going through all the possible causes of a serious lack of power. I did notice that there didn't seem to be much petrol in the clear fuel filter and it didn't seem to increase when the throttle was increased. As a precaution I treated myself to a new pump from a well known supplier, the pump with a lift handle. Once fitted however the clear fuel filter filled very quickly and before long was flooding out the carburettor. Question I have is 1) are there different pumps available ? 2) would you expect to have to adjust the float levels to cope with a new pump ?  The activating arms on the two pumps are slightly different , the new one looks slightly longer ? Am I missing something apart from any mechanical skills ?

First, I wouldn't expect the fuel filter to fill more because you open the throttle. If it's in the correct place, before the pump, then it won't change at all. If it's after the pump, opening the throttle might even empty it.

There have been a lot of reports of problems with the "new" pumps being set for too high a pressure and your float valve can't cope. That's probably what's happened. You absolutely do NOT need to adjust float levels for the pump. The float level is the critical thing and the pump must obey it or it's not fit for purpose.

If your plastic filter is fitted after the pump, my suspicion would be that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with your original pump and all it needs is the internal gauze filter cleaned out. Even if it's developed sticky valves I'd be tempted to look at rebuilding it rather than buy new. I've rebuilt a couple of Vitesse fuel pumps (OK, one of them was off a 2500S but I was putting it on a Vitesse) and it's not hard.

For the four cylinder engine, there are two different pump types. The long arm ones should have a spacer between them and the block to reduce heat soak. I don't think that's your problem, though, as fitting the wrong combination normally results in no pumping.

Rob, I think you may be right. As usual I should have done a bit more research, I thought a pump swap would be a quicker way to go as I don't get a lot of spanner time . Ive just used my Gunsen vacuum gauge which has a fuel pump test and its showing 10PSI which sounds very high to me. The old pump looks OK, I stripped out the filter and it didn't have anything in it. I will give it a good clean out and flush the pipes, refit and take it for a run. The symptoms were Idle OK, revs freely but dies under load / no power. I changed out the points and condenser and put fresh fuel in as it hadn't been used for a while.

I think youre on the right track with what you've done so far. I replaced the original pump on my on my Vitesse with a pattern part mechanical job and its been fine.

Probably whats happened is the same as with mine: the non return valves aren't sealing properly on the old unit so it can pump some fuel but not enough to keep up with greater demand under sustained high load. You can test both valves individually by removing the pump top cover and blowing back through the outlet and then sucking on the inlet both of which it shouldn't allow. I could have bought an overhaul kit but the price was a good part of the cost of a new pump so I thought why bother.

Now your replacement pump is giving the correct pressure but your carb float valve isn't sealing well enough to hold back the greater pressure. This could be dirt or wear and assuming you have a Stromberg a cheat you can try is blowing back through the carb overflow to temporarily dislodge the obstruction. However later you will need to remove the float bowl to either clean it out properly or replace the float valve. You also can check the float level setting at the same time....

10 psi is way too high. should be around 3 psi from memory. Your float valves won't hold back 10. Repair the original pump.

Tony.

True that is high and can only be down to the return spring inside the pump being rather strong. I got my replacement pump from James Paddock and never needed to test its pressure as it worked perfectly straight from the box.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, so today I decided to strip the old pump again and sure enough the gauze filter was spic and span , however underneath it which I didn't see before was a big bit of what looks like ptfe tape ? No idea where that came from but it probably didn't help. So after giving it a "thorough" clean and refit its running OK with no leaks. Too wet at the moment to go for a test run but will try it when I get a chance. I got the new pump from Paddocks and its the correct one as listed however I did the same test using the Gunsens. New pump 10PSI , old Pump a steady 1.5PSI. Could have gone down the route of a regulator I suppose but I should have done a bit more investigating before getting the wallet out. I haven't conclusively proved that was why she broke down but the fuel filter does show fuel now which it didn't always before. Taking on board Rob's comments am I better moving the filter to near the tank and would it be wrong to just fit another near the tank and leave the one between pump and Carb ? Thanks for the support

Regarding the filter; the best plan would be to use one filter and place it between the tank and the pump.

An easy location is where the pipe from the tank appears from under the front bulkhead just before it goes into the pump.  Simply cut this pipe, and insert the filter there, substituting with rubber fuel hose as required.

As Mike says, the easiest place for the filter is just before the pump. On a Herald it's much more accessible and visible (for service checks) there than near the tank. Also, it will catch anything that flakes off the inside of the long pipe under the body.

That piece of tape would explain the problem but let us know us know how the test drive goes anyway

Mr. Page.... nice to see you are still driving the Herald.  I gave up on the replacement mechanical pumps after the new one caused me problems on the 2012 RBRR with intermittent 9 psi.  Since fitting the electric pump I have had no problems.

Since I retired I have had more time to drive the spit.  Hope all's well at work, hope to catch up with you some time.

Danny

Always a pleasure to hear from you Mr Baker. Just my luck I was feeling guilty about not using the Herald since Xmas so used it to pick up my Teenage daughter from school, she loved breaking down in front of her mates . True to form the Herald always gets me home albeit at 10 miles an hour. Will have to have a catch up soon. Ps: Im on nights - remember them ?

Quoted from pagey-

Thanks for the suggestions guys, so today I decided to strip the old pump again and sure enough the gauze filter was spic and span , however underneath it which I didn't see before was a big bit of what looks like ptfe tape ? No idea where that came from but it probably didn't help. So after giving it a "thorough" clean and refit its running OK with no leaks. Too wet at the moment to go for a test run but will try it when I get a chance. I got the new pump from Paddocks and its the correct one as listed however I did the same test using the Gunsens. New pump 10PSI , old Pump a steady 1.5PSI. Could have gone down the route of a regulator I suppose but I should have done a bit more investigating before getting the wallet out.

Hi, any news on how the cars running now?

Guys sorry I rudely haven't reported back on this , work commitments and family have prevented me getting the Herald out. I will make an effort next week and report back.

yes come on Steve youve got to get your priorities right: Triumph, family and then work ;-) 

OK for the first two, but leave out the third - whatever 'work' is. Oh, I have a vague memory of doing it once a few years back but it got in the way of N°1.

Shameful how shift work , two teenage kids and torrential rain kept me out of my Triumph bloomin lightweight. The good news is I took her out for a spin this afternoon and she behaved impeccably for the 10 miles or so I did including  a "ahem" spirited section of A road. In and ideal world I would have made one change at a time to confirm what the issue was. It could have been old fuel, the nasty bit of "stuff" in the petrol pump filter, the points, the condenser or the numpty driving but hopefully that's resolved it for now. What have we learnt ? Investigate things logically and methodically before getting out the flexible friend and read More Forum articles where the issue with the new pumps putting out too much pressure is well documented. Once again thanks to everyone for their support and enjoy your Triumphs.