Club Triumph

I bought a steel flywheel from Wishbone - this one http://www.wishboneclassics.com/content/flywheel-light-steel-tr6

They're actually made by Bastück in Germany. The flywheels come with four bolt holes plus a dowel hole. Kai drilled two extra but holes in mine and supplied ARP bolts with smaller heads so that all six bolts fitted. I then had my engine machinist drill two extra holes in the crank.

Hey guys. Im going to see what my machinist can do in regards to machining mine and how much. To take metal out of the back on the lathe would be easy but I reckon they'll charge a lot to take it out of the edges like the Wish bone one. If it is not feasible to get mine done I have talked to Kai at Wishbone and they are soon to be doing the machined ones above again. For how much metal has been removed the price seems really good! Once I confirm once and for all what crank/ flywheel I have (hopefully measure it tomorrow night at the machine shop, and show him the flywheel) I'll be able to decide which way to go. I'd say at this point it's going to be the cheapest option though as Ive completely blown the budget!
John, Is all the removed weight you mentioned removed from the back of the flywheel in a lathe or is some milled out of the clutch side? Ive heard if you go too far on the back face you risk it blowing up. Ive also heard you can machine it down by about ten cm or so. Any thoughts?
Cheers

Hello Josh,

I machined some from the back of my flywheel, but I erred on the side of caution as I had no data on a 'safe' amount to leave.

While the Wishbone ones are CNC machined, that is not essential, it just makes sense if doing a production run. Any machinist with a manual vertical miller can do as good a job on a one off basis.
When you buy their flywheel, is it balanced as it will need to be before you assemble the engine.

Alec

Hi Josh,
My late flywheel was lightened to 7.5 kg. All removed from the backside. It was done by the machine shop who did also the machining of the bottom end. It costs 90 Euro's.
Today I probably would also remove some meat at the clutch side, as shown in the WBC video.
Anyway, I wouldn't use a 4kg flywheel for a road going car, because you will loose the throw when going uphill's.
If I find a picture of mine, I will post it.

Cheers
Michael

Metal removed from the rim is worth twice as much as from further into the middle, because it travels so much faster, and so requires so much more kinetic energy to do so.
AND weakening the hub is danagerous.

Certainly, an ultralight flywheel isn't for road going, although the spread of impulse ina six is much wider than a four.
John

Thanks guys
Josh

Hey, I have got a couple of really nice deliveries in the post over the last few days. My cam and lifters have come from Newman and my forst order from wishbone classics has also arrived. All in good condition, and some pretty sweet looking stuff I must say! I have one more order to come from wishbone and decided to go with one of the previously mentioned flywheels. Much better job than my local bloke could do for the money- He wanted almost that much just to lathe out the back let alone mill the front. All the cost was in labour because of the set up time. i also needed exhaust valves and we decided to get a new set of pistons so we could get the clearances where they needed to be. I think the next order is just about ready to ship, just waiting on the bearings to be moly/PTFE coated and the flywheel I think. Then I can give it all to the builder and he can work some magic (hopefully not too expensive magic but Im not holding my breath) and some time soonish I can put it all back together!
As far as the cam goes, I cant quite work out some of the terms- the chart talks about a checking clearance (Ive heard of checking height) to degree the cam with. It also states max lift at 110 degrees ATDC. I was hoping to set it to there and see- how does the checking clearance work? And I have searched, checking height comes up a lot but not checking clearance. The intake lobe centreline method seems much better/ easier- can I use that at 110 degrees or is there more to it?

Hello Josh,

I recently installed a Newman assymetric cam in my engine and used the maximum lift at x degrees to install it, The engine is waiting for me to finish the rest of the car so I can't yet see how it runs.

I don't understand what set up time your machinist needs to turn a flywheel, even if it means fitting a different chuck or face plate 10 to 15 minutes at the most? Perhaps he didn't fancy the job?

Alec

Yeah I dont know either Alec but that's what he quoted. His job was never going to be as good as the Wishbone one though so not really worth it unless he was really cheap.
What cam was that you installed BTW? Is that assymetric lobes or a different inlet/ exhaust duration?
Cheers

Hello Josh,

no I agree there would need to be a big difference in price, however I feel it is a very nice to have but will not have a significant power (response?) effect.

Its asymmetric duration 300/280 and with a 108 degree full lift figure. (Don't do as I initially did, time it on number one cylinder number one cam follower, that doesn't work!)

Alec

Hey Alec, that is the same duration as mine but mine says 110 degrees. What lift is yours?

I dont get what you mean about the flywheel. Are you saying the wishbone one is no good? Bear in mind I have a short back crank so the heaviest flywheel there is. Im sure I will be able to tell the difference. We'll see though hey.

Quoted from piman

Hello Josh,

Its asymmetric duration 300/280 and with a 108 degree full lift figure. (Don't do as I initially did, time it on number one cylinder number one cam follower, that doesn't work!)

Alec

Here's a question I've been pondering over for a while, and my possible solution.
Q: I have a new cam so need to get the engine to fire right away on first start up but my injection has been disconnected to could need ages of cranking to bleed. Also I was planning to crank the oil pump over with a drill to get oil pressure up, but then will have to take time to put back  the MU drive and time in the MU- will the bearings stay primed enough for a start over that time? Im thinking yes but let me know your thoughts.
As for bleeding the lines I was thinking of making an adapter to I could spin the MU over with a drill also to allow me to bleed it without spinning the engine.
How have you guys gone about a first start on your PIs?
Cheers

Hello Josh,

no I'm not saying it's no good, just that for result per $ it's not a lot.

Cam:- Cam Lift Inlet and Exhaust    6.85mm (0.270")

Duration  Inlet  300 Degrees  Exhaust 280 Degrees

L.C.A 108 degrees   Lift at TDC 1.6mm (0.063") Inlet 1.25mm (0.049") Exhaust

Valve clearance, 14 thou inlet, 16 thou exhaust.

I assembled my engine with Millers assembly oil and it's very thick.  On start up I'll simply fill the sump and (spin on) oil filter and crank the engine, with the plugs out. I find it takes hardly any time at all to get some oil pressure. I've not used this assembly oil before but whenever I do an oil change I find you can hear the effect of oil pressure on the engine before the oil pressure registers on the gauge. (I've fitted a push button under the bonnet so I can crank the engine from there, very useful.)

Alec

Thanks Alec. Interesting your cam is 108, did you specify that? I take it advancing it a bit gives you more mid range torque? Mine is the same as yours but max lift at 110 degrees and .290 lift, cant wait to feel the difference from the old engine! What compression are you running btw?

Thanks for the start up info. I have heard of packing the oil pump with vaseline to avoid an air lock- has anyone tried that?
Also Alec do you do anything to bleed the PI before the first start?
Cheers
Josh

The drill dodge is useful but I also use an assembly cam lubricant with plenty of zinc, and "Graphogen" on the main big end bearings.
John

Hello Josh,

no, it was a grind that Newman had done before, I don't know who originally specified it.  
I went for it after a recommendation on this forum.

No I don't do anything, just full choke and crank away.

Alec

As far as the bearings go,  priming the pump the re-assembling should be fine as the oil will be cold and thick and the galleries will stay full.

As far as the cam lobes go, that is harder as they will be under full load when cranking bur won't get any significant new lubrication until the engine fires up.  I suppose you could remove the rockers and plugs and crank it like that but not sure I'd go that far.  Depends how long it takes to start and I've not had to prime a PI system from empty before......

Nick

cover the lifters and lobes in Dry film lube,
spray a few coats on, and let dry
then can oil it a bit, then can turn engine owa  with oot things
wearing away,  it wears off whenst engine running a while.
but seems to last lang enough to start up a new engine.

http://catalog.antiseize.com/i.....m-lubricant_/12014-1

M

Thanks heaps guys, that's all really helpful.
Cheers
Josh