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scotty71
July 20, 2017, 9:24pm Report to Moderator

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what is the best way to fit the MOCAL cooler? being my car does run hot. i have seen someone had fitted it near the rear of the engine bay? but would be looking at the front, under the rad. or around that area. any ideas?
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1968Vitesse25
July 20, 2017, 10:42pm Report to Moderator

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Behind the air inlet above the number plate.
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nang
July 21, 2017, 5:08am Report to Moderator

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If it don't run hot, why do you need it , do you race it? Too cold is as bad as too hot to me.
Only my opinion though.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec) owned since 1998.

1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
2003 BMW 525i Touring.
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1968Vitesse25
July 21, 2017, 6:45am Report to Moderator

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Scott's post say his car runs hot. An oil cooler is always a worthwhile fitment on any Triumph in these days of much higher densities of slow traffic and faster motorways. Adds a bit of extra oil capacity and disperses a useful amount of extra heat from the engine.
Triumph either fitted one as standard or offered it as an option on export cars going to countries with higher tempereatures or motorways in the long off days when we only had the Preston bypass. Most modern cars have one too.
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Jonny-Jimbo
July 21, 2017, 8:07am Report to Moderator

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Comparing a Triumph to a modern car is a bit like chalk and cheese, or apples and oranges etc.

If you're going to fit an oil cooler, the normal position is in front of the radiator - just have a look at where you can install it easily. Maybe mount it vertically on the passenger side of the radiator, through the metal plate that supports said radiator?

Consider fitting an oil thermostat too, so it only cools the oil when needed. Maybe check the oil is actually getting hot too?


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
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scotty71
July 21, 2017, 11:57am Report to Moderator

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thank gents for the reply's. I have tried different oils to see which ones could help, being I was using a 10/40 grade. but in slow traffic to Farnham car show the oil light started to glow. so now up the grade to 20/50 and now opted to run an oil cooler.
the engine is ok with 20/50 grade, and the oil light has not come back on. pressure is good.
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1968Vitesse25
July 21, 2017, 3:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jonny-Jimbo
Comparing a Triumph to a modern car is a bit like chalk and cheese, or apples and oranges etc.


The laws of engineering applies exactly the same to a 1907 De Dion as a 2017 Ferrarri..
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1968Vitesse25
July 21, 2017, 3:24pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from scotty71
thank gents for the reply's. I have tried different oils to see which ones could help, being I was using a 10/40 grade. but in slow traffic to Farnham car show the oil light started to glow. so now up the grade to 20/50 and now opted to run an oil cooler.
the engine is ok with 20/50 grade, and the oil light has not come back on. pressure is good.


10/40's too thin for the clearances. 20/50 is the right grade - Valvolines racing mineral oil gets a lot of positive feedback. An oil cooler gets you a couple of pints extra oil capacity.
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scotty71
July 21, 2017, 4:28pm Report to Moderator

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i will be running 20/50 from now on, with the oil cooler.
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glang
July 21, 2017, 5:01pm Report to Moderator

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I dont know what car you've got but are you sure the existing cooling system is working at its best? If the rad hasnt been recored recently or has the original design you could see a substantial improvement with a recore and of course flushing the system at the same time brings obvious benefits.
As well as the expense oil cooler,s by taking the oil outside of the engine, do add an element of risk.....    
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cliftyhanger
July 21, 2017, 5:06pm Report to Moderator

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And to reiterate a point made earlier, it is essential to run an oil thermostat. Oil too cold is very bad...


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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glang
July 21, 2017, 5:11pm Report to Moderator

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And if you must have an oil cooler take a look at this installation for an interesting alternative:

http://www.club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1491255016/
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GT6 M
July 21, 2017, 5:55pm Report to Moderator

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Oil, try,n use the Penrite stuff, 20'60, its quite decent stuff
and dont go off like quite a few doo efta a while so keeps its pressure

M


One does not have to know how a thing works, to know that it is not working right

Ye div,nt efta no ooa thing wuks, t,no its nut wuk,n reet.







Scaryport,��Cumbria,.
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Spitfire6
July 21, 2017, 6:06pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
forget the mineral oil its not 1970 anymore.
Use fully synthetic.
Fit an oil temp sensor to see if an oil cooler is required.
Cold oil is generally worse than very hot oil over the long term.
20w50 is a poor choice today.

Cheers,
Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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GT6 M
July 21, 2017, 6:19pm Report to Moderator

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forget the mineral oil its not 1970 anymore.
Use fully synthetic.

Says Ian,

  
yip its great stuff,
BUTT, its gotta ev a good dose of ZDDP init
most modern synths aint got it

needed for yer cam an followers

one I use es loadsa the stuff init,  and it odds PSI v v well indeed

M


One does not have to know how a thing works, to know that it is not working right

Ye div,nt efta no ooa thing wuks, t,no its nut wuk,n reet.







Scaryport,��Cumbria,.
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Spitfire6
July 21, 2017, 6:26pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
If you believe all the hype about ZDDP; buy an oil that says for motorSport. It will have the magic ZDDP in it.

Cheers,
Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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Spitfire6
July 21, 2017, 6:43pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
not my words, but I believe them:

"The zinc is only there as a fall back when the oil film shears, as it prevents micro welds from occurring when you get metal to metal contact. You really should not get this in the first place with a decent oil. Its been phased out of oil as it contaminates the catalysts on road cars, over time causing them to fail. As for the viscosity, you only want to run a range that suits the temperature range the engine is likely to be used in most of the time. i.e. if you do a lot of cold starts and short journeys, the thin bit of the oil range is the important bit, ie the 5 or 10 bit of the grade. At the other end the thick bit of the oil range is important for high temperature running, so if you use the car mostly in the summer on decent runs, then a thicker grade oil will help keep the oil pressure up under load. If you run a really heavy grade (like a 60) it puts the load up on the oil pump"

Cheers,
Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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Nick Jones
July 21, 2017, 7:04pm Report to Moderator

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It's true about ZDDP being a backup for when the oil film fails as it's purpose is at least partly as a dry lubricant.

The point is though, in flat tappet engines as Triumphs and others of the period, these conditions do exist between cam and follower quite alot of time and if there is insufficient ZDDP present, especially during early stages of running in, you will get microwelding and tearing leading to pitting and full blow failure in a very short time.

This isn't the only cause of cam/follower failure in these engines but it is certainly in the mix.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 9:38am Report to Moderator

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You can get cans of Lucas Oil ZDDP break in additive from American car spares places. Well worth bunging a can in with a new cam/tappets
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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 9:41am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spitfire6
Hi,
forget the mineral oil its not 1970 anymore.
Use fully synthetic.
Fit an oil temp sensor to see if an oil cooler is required.
Cold oil is generally worse than very hot oil over the long term.
20w50 is a poor choice today.

Cheers,
Iain.




Modern mineral oil formulations are very different oils to the stuff sold in the 70's.

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
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GT6 M
July 22, 2017, 10:14am Report to Moderator

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and that chart shows just how a multi grade  oil aint actually dooing as its supposed t,doo
thats why I think its better t,go thicker in oor engines.
as it dont tek much for a 20/50W oil t,revert back to its base 20W

as thee,s figs show,its already below what it should be as new
so wots it gonna be like whenst its older,
M


One does not have to know how a thing works, to know that it is not working right

Ye div,nt efta no ooa thing wuks, t,no its nut wuk,n reet.







Scaryport,��Cumbria,.
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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 11:41am Report to Moderator


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Hi,
There lies one problem with mineral oil. A 20w50 mineral oil starts life as SAE 20, additives, (VI's), are added to make it 20W50. When the additives are depleted it becomes a SAE 20 oil again.
A fully synthetic ester oil will stay at SAE 50 as it was never a SAE 20 to begin with.

Cheers,
Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 2:20pm Report to Moderator

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So, can we get a fully synthetic oil with enough ZDDP?
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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 3:09pm Report to Moderator


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Yes,
Motor sport oil.
Give Opie oils a shout.

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/frmcontact.aspx.

Last time I spoke to them, the best Ester synthetic for my Triumph was Fuchs Titan Race PRO S 10W60
It will be replacing the Millers Oils NANODRIVE CFS 10w-40 NT Ester Synthetic oil Engine Oil that has been in over a year.

Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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cliftyhanger
July 22, 2017, 3:10pm Report to Moderator

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There may be a racing oil?
Otherwise maybe a BMW m spec 10/60 or similar, and add a can of zddplus? Works out a tad expensive!!

Besides, most people won't see any benefit. And there are a few half decent oils at fair prices out there. The miller's CSS I use was bought at a very good price at a show. Doubt I would buy again unless £30 a tub (or less!)


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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cliftyhanger
July 22, 2017, 3:11pm Report to Moderator

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Ha, great minds....


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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sparky_spit
July 22, 2017, 3:22pm Report to Moderator

Mike Banks
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The cheapest ZDDP additive I've found is https://uk.eastcoastadditives.com/products/east-coast-zddp   The only issue is, being quite a bit cheaper than some others, is it any good?  It's one of those things where you won't find out until it's too late, especially on running in a newly rebuilt engine where you are mixing it with cheap mineral oil for the first few hundred miles use.


Location - North Essex

1968 MkIII Spitfire - 2009, 2013, 2015 10CR. 2009, 2010 Nachtrit. 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 HCR (..and 11/14ths of the 2011 10CR)
Yamaha RS200 two stroke smoke machine.
Royal Enfield Bullet 500
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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 3:24pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
response  from Opie a few years ago;

"Hi Iain

If you don't want to use a 20w-50, I would probably use a 10w-50 as it will offer much better cold start protection. Also, the 10w-50s that we have are all very good oils, with a high ZDDP content.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-659-10w-50.aspx

The Nanodrive CFS is, on paper, the best oil available, but the Pro S, Red Line and CFS are really good oils, so all are good choices for your car.

Regards

Tim


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 3:59pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
I would not be wanting to add extra ZDDP to an oil even if the additive was free. Maybe on a new rebuild, But I would not be using an expensive oil for the first couple of hundred miles, Knowing i'm going to dump it over a drain.

Disclaimer;
I would and have never dumped oil into the sewer system. Best down the kitchen sink when the wife is away.
Joking, get over it. .


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 5:44pm Report to Moderator

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£15+ a litre?!?!?!  

I'll stick to 5 litres of Valvoline for £30
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JohnD
July 22, 2017, 6:02pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from 1968Vitesse25
You can get cans of Lucas Oil ZDDP break in additive from American car spares places. Well worth bunging a can in with a new cam/tappets


Just been looking for some, but all I can find is in the US, and the shipping price is more than the product.   I note that many oil makers, including Lucas Oils, now offer a break-in oil, ready mixed.
   Either this is a well-copied marketing move, or some regulation is preventing the additive being sold, and all that is left in stock, is old stock.

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 6:22pm Report to Moderator


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1968Vitesse25 You get what you pay for..

30 quid a week in your tank and you think more than £30 in you engine is too much?
My car is a daily driver and £50+ quid a year makes sense to me.
If you only drive 100 miles a year I understand.

And do not put additives in your oil. If they work; you will be embarrassing the oil manufacturers by showing you know more than them.


Cheers,
Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 6:39pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD


Just been looking for some, but all I can find is in the US, and the shipping price is more than the product.   I note that many oil makers, including Lucas Oils, now offer a break-in oil, ready mixed.
   Either this is a well-copied marketing move, or some regulation is preventing the additive being sold, and all that is left in stock, is old stock.

John


It has to be sold as 'for racing use'. Product liability and all that good stuff. It poisons catalytic converters.
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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 6:56pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
Reference to above.
If it was used in a catalytic converter fitted car. I think a day or so of use would pose no problems unless the beast was burning it.

Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 6:59pm Report to Moderator

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Hi John,

Germans love American motors.
Shippings very reasonable. They speak English BTW.

http://store.moparshop.de/en/P.....-Zinc-Plus-0-5L.html
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GT6 M
July 22, 2017, 7:12pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 1968Vitesse25
So, can we get a fully synthetic oil with enough ZDDP?


Yip, 2,200 PPM ZDDP its good stuff too Penrite racing fully synth

M


One does not have to know how a thing works, to know that it is not working right

Ye div,nt efta no ooa thing wuks, t,no its nut wuk,n reet.







Scaryport,��Cumbria,.
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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 7:15pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
ref the original post:
The temps are old English/German measurement and not Centigrade!
Iain.



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Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 7:51pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from scotty71
what is the best way to fit the MOCAL cooler? being my car does run hot. i have seen someone had fitted it near the rear of the engine bay? but would be looking at the front, under the rad. or around that area. any ideas?


Hi,
I would fit it at the front IF you car need one.
Better and cheaper you run Ester synthetic oil that can handle the temperature better and work out cheaper.
I'm out of this thread now, as my opinion has been stated.


73's and Enjoy,
Iain.





Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 8:22pm Report to Moderator

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On the Canley Classics catalogue, this is the factory installation for an oil cooler on a Spitfire.

https://www.canleyclassics.com/triumph-spitfire-mkiv/1500-oil-cooler/
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JohnD
July 22, 2017, 9:07pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from 1968Vitesse25
Hi John,

Germans love American motors.
Shippings very reasonable. They speak English BTW.

http://store.moparshop.de/en/P.....-Zinc-Plus-0-5L.html


Thanks!
In fact I bought some of Lucas's own, ZDDP-rich,  'break-in oil', for less than £10 more than that.
You couldn't make up your own for that!
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 9:40pm Report to Moderator

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I'm assuming you want the ZDDP to beef up your racing oil?
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JohnD
July 23, 2017, 7:39am Report to Moderator


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No. "break-in"" oil.
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Jonny-Jimbo
July 23, 2017, 10:21am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 1968Vitesse25


The laws of engineering applies exactly the same to a 1907 De Dion as a 2017 Ferrarri..


But the actual designs, technology, manufacturing etc have all changed.



62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Nick Jones
July 23, 2017, 10:39am Report to Moderator

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Here's a very reasonably priced 20/50 with decent (1,300 ppm) ZDDP levels.  I've read that much over 1,100 - 1,300 ppm ZDDP is pointless, even counter-productive

http://www.classic-oils.net/Classic-Oils-Heritage-20W50

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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1968Vitesse25
July 23, 2017, 12:57pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jonny-Jimbo


But the actual designs, technology, manufacturing etc have all changed.



An engines an engine, it's the same principles.
Coldest air in, hottest air out,

We have a far better understanding of the physics, but it's all the same rules.
Keep your coolant hot, but don't let your oil get too hot - and Triumphs pushrod engines have always had an issue with oil temperatures.
A combination of a basically poor design stretched  far to far and a domestic market that didn't force mass manufacturers to address oil breakdown during high speed running. German and Italian cars of the period were far more durable thanks to their markets need to run on Autobahns and Autostrada.
Triumph were well aware their engines had issues with oil temperatures when they started fitting as standard or offering oil coolers as a dealer fitment for cars being exported to the Continent and the USA in the 1960's.
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sparky_spit
July 23, 2017, 4:19pm Report to Moderator

Mike Banks
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Quoted from Spitfire6
Hi,
I would not be wanting to add extra ZDDP to an oil even if the additive was free. Maybe on a new rebuild, But I would not be using an expensive oil for the first couple of hundred miles.
.


Yes, totally agree for normal running using proper quality oil for our engines but this is for running in a newly built one. I was trying the find the right balance between oil that was suitable to allow rings to bed in without glazing, while having enough ZDDP in there (via an additive) to try and protect the cam and followers.

I was planning on using something like Comma Motorway 20/50 (dirt cheap I know, but that's not the point) and a ZDDP additive in the right proportion.

However, looking at the link in John SB's post re Lucas Oils, their break-in 20/50 seems to be ideal, so I'll use that for the first 200 miles.


Location - North Essex

1968 MkIII Spitfire - 2009, 2013, 2015 10CR. 2009, 2010 Nachtrit. 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 HCR (..and 11/14ths of the 2011 10CR)
Yamaha RS200 two stroke smoke machine.
Royal Enfield Bullet 500
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1968Vitesse25
July 23, 2017, 5:58pm Report to Moderator

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For breaking in an engine, you actually want a pretty 'poor' oil without all the Gucci modern anti wear additives to let the engine and most importantly the rings bed in. The ZDDP is to protect the cam during bed in.
Most 'break in' oil is just that, a basic Dino oil with ZDDP.
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