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Spitfire6
July 21, 2017, 6:26pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
If you believe all the hype about ZDDP; buy an oil that says for motorSport. It will have the magic ZDDP in it.

Cheers,
Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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Spitfire6
July 21, 2017, 6:43pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
not my words, but I believe them:

"The zinc is only there as a fall back when the oil film shears, as it prevents micro welds from occurring when you get metal to metal contact. You really should not get this in the first place with a decent oil. Its been phased out of oil as it contaminates the catalysts on road cars, over time causing them to fail. As for the viscosity, you only want to run a range that suits the temperature range the engine is likely to be used in most of the time. i.e. if you do a lot of cold starts and short journeys, the thin bit of the oil range is the important bit, ie the 5 or 10 bit of the grade. At the other end the thick bit of the oil range is important for high temperature running, so if you use the car mostly in the summer on decent runs, then a thicker grade oil will help keep the oil pressure up under load. If you run a really heavy grade (like a 60) it puts the load up on the oil pump"

Cheers,
Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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Nick Jones
July 21, 2017, 7:04pm Report to Moderator

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It's true about ZDDP being a backup for when the oil film fails as it's purpose is at least partly as a dry lubricant.

The point is though, in flat tappet engines as Triumphs and others of the period, these conditions do exist between cam and follower quite alot of time and if there is insufficient ZDDP present, especially during early stages of running in, you will get microwelding and tearing leading to pitting and full blow failure in a very short time.

This isn't the only cause of cam/follower failure in these engines but it is certainly in the mix.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 9:38am Report to Moderator

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You can get cans of Lucas Oil ZDDP break in additive from American car spares places. Well worth bunging a can in with a new cam/tappets
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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 9:41am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spitfire6
Hi,
forget the mineral oil its not 1970 anymore.
Use fully synthetic.
Fit an oil temp sensor to see if an oil cooler is required.
Cold oil is generally worse than very hot oil over the long term.
20w50 is a poor choice today.

Cheers,
Iain.




Modern mineral oil formulations are very different oils to the stuff sold in the 70's.

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
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GT6 M
July 22, 2017, 10:14am Report to Moderator

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and that chart shows just how a multi grade  oil aint actually dooing as its supposed t,doo
thats why I think its better t,go thicker in oor engines.
as it dont tek much for a 20/50W oil t,revert back to its base 20W

as thee,s figs show,its already below what it should be as new
so wots it gonna be like whenst its older,
M


One does not have to know how a thing works, to know that it is not working right

Ye div,nt efta no ooa thing wuks, t,no its nut wuk,n reet.







Scaryport,��Cumbria,.
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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 11:41am Report to Moderator


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Hi,
There lies one problem with mineral oil. A 20w50 mineral oil starts life as SAE 20, additives, (VI's), are added to make it 20W50. When the additives are depleted it becomes a SAE 20 oil again.
A fully synthetic ester oil will stay at SAE 50 as it was never a SAE 20 to begin with.

Cheers,
Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 2:20pm Report to Moderator

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So, can we get a fully synthetic oil with enough ZDDP?
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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 3:09pm Report to Moderator


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Yes,
Motor sport oil.
Give Opie oils a shout.

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/frmcontact.aspx.

Last time I spoke to them, the best Ester synthetic for my Triumph was Fuchs Titan Race PRO S 10W60
It will be replacing the Millers Oils NANODRIVE CFS 10w-40 NT Ester Synthetic oil Engine Oil that has been in over a year.

Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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cliftyhanger
July 22, 2017, 3:10pm Report to Moderator

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There may be a racing oil?
Otherwise maybe a BMW m spec 10/60 or similar, and add a can of zddplus? Works out a tad expensive!!

Besides, most people won't see any benefit. And there are a few half decent oils at fair prices out there. The miller's CSS I use was bought at a very good price at a show. Doubt I would buy again unless £30 a tub (or less!)


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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cliftyhanger
July 22, 2017, 3:11pm Report to Moderator

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Ha, great minds....


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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sparky_spit
July 22, 2017, 3:22pm Report to Moderator

Mike Banks
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The cheapest ZDDP additive I've found is https://uk.eastcoastadditives.com/products/east-coast-zddp   The only issue is, being quite a bit cheaper than some others, is it any good?  It's one of those things where you won't find out until it's too late, especially on running in a newly rebuilt engine where you are mixing it with cheap mineral oil for the first few hundred miles use.


Location - North Essex

1968 MkIII Spitfire - 2009, 2013, 2015 10CR. 2009, 2010 Nachtrit. 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 HCR (..and 11/14ths of the 2011 10CR)
Yamaha RS200 two stroke smoke machine.
Royal Enfield Bullet 500
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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 3:24pm Report to Moderator


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Hi,
response  from Opie a few years ago;

"Hi Iain

If you don't want to use a 20w-50, I would probably use a 10w-50 as it will offer much better cold start protection. Also, the 10w-50s that we have are all very good oils, with a high ZDDP content.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-659-10w-50.aspx

The Nanodrive CFS is, on paper, the best oil available, but the Pro S, Red Line and CFS are really good oils, so all are good choices for your car.

Regards

Tim


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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Spitfire6
July 22, 2017, 3:59pm Report to Moderator


Posts: 1,136
Posts Per Day: 0.36
Hi,
I would not be wanting to add extra ZDDP to an oil even if the additive was free. Maybe on a new rebuild, But I would not be using an expensive oil for the first couple of hundred miles, Knowing i'm going to dump it over a drain.

Disclaimer;
I would and have never dumped oil into the sewer system. Best down the kitchen sink when the wife is away.
Joking, get over it. .


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
IEEE Member
G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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1968Vitesse25
July 22, 2017, 5:44pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 53
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£15+ a litre?!?!?!  

I'll stick to 5 litres of Valvoline for £30
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