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Matt306
June 25, 2017, 9:01pm Report to Moderator

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Having done RBRR and found the braking coming off Dartmoor with bargain basement pads slightly 'ropey' I have ordered some Greenstuff pads. EBC list these as part number DP2114 https://ebcbrakesdirect.com/automotive/triumph/herald-13-60/1.3-1967-1971/13554

Carpart4less with the weekend12 code allowed me to get these ordered and delivered for a shade over £25 which is the cheapest i have found. Just putting it out there for sharing.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
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glang
June 25, 2017, 9:11pm Report to Moderator

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Good price, let us know what you think of them once theyre bedded in  
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Matt306
June 25, 2017, 9:14pm Report to Moderator

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I thought so , thought i would put it out there, there Weekend12 offer doesnt have long to run


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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Nick Jones
June 25, 2017, 10:02pm Report to Moderator

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Be interested to see how you find them.  Tried 'em briefly on the Vitesse, wasn't a great success, though that was a while ago and I think they compound might have been changed since then.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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JohnD
June 25, 2017, 10:10pm Report to Moderator


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Quote, "for a shade over £25 which is the cheapest i have found"

Matt, this is brakes, mission critical kit.     And you're going for the cheapest you can find, even when previously you found "the braking coming off Dartmoor with bargain basement pads slightly 'ropey'"
Don't you think that may have had a message for you?
Hope you read the code before you go on the 10CR - the decents across the Alps are a bit steeper than Dartmoor!

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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ferny
June 26, 2017, 5:29am Report to Moderator

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He means the cheapest price for those pads... Bloody hell.

Anyway, hope you like them. Same as Nick, I wasn't a fan near ten years ago. They used to work best with drilled or slotted discs as they're very gassy. No experience since the compound change.

I'd also consider replacing your brake fluid with better quality. It might make a marked improvement.


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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Jonny-Jimbo
June 26, 2017, 8:19am Report to Moderator

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Different type of car, but I had green stuffs in my 540 (So twice the weight and three times the power of a Herald), and I didn't get on with them. They came with the car when I bought it, but I didn't truly like them I have to say. Had no real bite or feel. Decided to try moving to Red Stuff's and they were much better. Initial bite is good without being snatchy. Progressive, and didn't overheat. They're still in the car after 3 years being daily driven, AND have done 200 laps of Mallory Park on a track day, 5 laps of the Nurburgring and the CT Autosolo... although I didn't use them a huge amount on that.

HOWEVER, I have green stuffs in my Vitesse and they're really good...


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Matt306
June 26, 2017, 8:43am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ferny
He means the cheapest price for those pads... Bloody hell.

Anyway, hope you like them. Same as Nick, I wasn't a fan near ten years ago. They used to work best with drilled or slotted discs as they're very gassy. No experience since the compound change.

I'd also consider replacing your brake fluid with better quality. It might make a marked improvement.


Thanks Ferny... Yes I am upgrading to better quality pads (hopefully) but hopefully at the cheapest price and thought I would share my find.

The bargain basement pads have been fine for everyday use, I only found them a problem coming off Dartmoor. All the components are new with stainless steel pistons and pipes and new copper pipes with new caliper seals. So the car stops straight and true , very well in fact for 50 year old tech. So I haven't considered I scrimped on critical components.

What fluid do you recommend Ferny I have standard fluid at the mo.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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JohnD
June 26, 2017, 8:52am Report to Moderator


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£25 for a set of brake pads IS bargain basement!

All the brake material manufacturers offer a range based on ther working temperature.
Standard road material works well when cold, but if used hard and heated beyond its working range will fade and wear quickly.
A hotter material may not work as well when you brake at the bottom of the hill outside your house, or in slow moving traffic, but will not get ropey coming down off Dartmoor!
Then there is 'race' material, that will not fade if raced down an Alpine pass, but will make you pushh the brake pedal through the bulkhead to stop when cold.
That's all that green, red, yellow, blue stuff is.
OR, for Mintex 1144,1155,1166.  A 1177 is alleged to exist, but never seen it!

Make a decison on that basis, not price and always buy a branded brake pad, not some Fu Kyu Chinese knock-off.
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Matt306
June 26, 2017, 9:28am Report to Moderator

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For what I use my Herald for they are fine... It's a stuffing Herald if it gets to 80 it's a miracle...I could try ceramic brakes but I think that would be a waste for a 60hp car. Even with bargain basement pads from Canleys I've found fine for everyday use. I leave a decent braking distance respecting the car and conditions.
I based my decision on use of car and cost...


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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Stuart Wilson
June 26, 2017, 9:41am Report to Moderator
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I wouldn't use a full on competition pad in a road car as when cold they are not the best. Might get away with a Mintex 1144 but anything else will probably only work best when warmed up correctly. I don't rate any EBC as "competition" material, more a fast road pad, though they may be better these days it's a while since I tried them.

remember if fitting proper competition pads follow the correct bedding in procedure to get the best out of them, which can seem a little extreme. If you do want decent competition pads can't go far wrong with the Pagid range or the Mintex F range or the Ferodo DS2500 or DS3000. Pads from these companies are not cheap but by golly they work, to give you an idea of costs I was paying £160 ish per set of Pagid "blue" for my rally Nova that was on Astra front brakes.


1982 TR7 FHC "Sprint"
Moss Roadster - upgrade now in progress
1985 Yamaha FZ750 -- looking to replace with something new
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You can never have too many toys!!

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Matt306
June 26, 2017, 9:55am Report to Moderator

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I only drive on road, no race circuits so going to try the green stuff they are for light cars for road use. As above there has been one recommendation on a vitesse.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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Jonny-Jimbo
June 26, 2017, 10:04am Report to Moderator

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Agree with most statements above really - the brake pads need to be suited to what your driving is, and really, it might be worth having two sets of pads in use to swap over. Standard road pads for most of the driving, then if you know you're going to be doing a lot of hard stops (like driving through the mountains etc) then consider swapping them. It's not like it's a hard job to swap pads on our cars!

As for performance, we use Carbon Lorraine pads on the BMW Touring Cars, which would also fit the Herald and Vitesse type calipers (two different pads), but race pads on the road would be a terrible idea.


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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cliftyhanger
June 26, 2017, 10:30am Report to Moderator

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I will be controversial here. I use old stock asbestos pads that seem very capable everywhere, and lasting well.

(and despite what people say, there is very little health risk. Just think, there was not a trail of death left by every car from the early 1900's right up until they where phased out in the 1990's, or 2004 for pre 73 vehicles. As to asbestos related lung diseases, truly horrible, there is only a very slightly increased risk to those who worked long term as brake technicians, ie all day every day comparerd to the general population. take sensible precautions and the risk approaches zero.)


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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Matt306
June 26, 2017, 10:48am Report to Moderator

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I only posted originally to advise the price for other CT members. I didn't realise some people would get so emotive over a set of brake pads.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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Matt306
June 26, 2017, 10:49am Report to Moderator

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Oh good on you Clive.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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cliftyhanger
June 26, 2017, 11:08am Report to Moderator

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Sorry, bit of thread drift.

What I should have said is that the old asbestos pads had a better set of properties than most modern pads. Greenstuff may well be a good choice, but I guess you won't know until the passes! The set of greenstuff I had on my spit seemed OK, better I think than the "white box" type but did create a lot of dust, That was 10 years ago though, things may have changed.

As to brake fluid, I have been using Pagid dot 4 fluid from euro car parts (same company as carparts4less!) and I have no complaints. Fresh fluid is the answer I reckon. And take a new bottle with you, just in case you boil the fluid!


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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Matt306
June 26, 2017, 11:16am Report to Moderator

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Thing is I'm not even going to the Alps


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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Straight Six
June 26, 2017, 11:24am Report to Moderator


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Quoted from cliftyhanger
I will be controversial here. I use old stock asbestos pads that seem very capable everywhere, and lasting well.

(and despite what people say, there is very little health risk. Just think, there was not a trail of death left by every car from the early 1900's right up until they where phased out in the 1990's, or 2004 for pre 73 vehicles. As to asbestos related lung diseases, truly horrible, there is only a very slightly increased risk to those who worked long term as brake technicians, ie all day every day comparerd to the general population. take sensible precautions and the risk approaches zero.)


Oii!!! Stop talking so much common sence!! It'll never catch on!
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glang
June 26, 2017, 11:40am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Matt306


Thanks Ferny... Yes I am upgrading to better quality pads (hopefully) but hopefully at the cheapest price and thought I would share my find.

The bargain basement pads have been fine for everyday use, I only found them a problem coming off Dartmoor. All the components are new with stainless steel pistons and pipes and new copper pipes with new caliper seals. So the car stops straight and true , very well in fact for 50 year old tech. So I haven't considered I scrimped on critical components.

What fluid do you recommend Ferny I have standard fluid at the mo.


I really cant see how a 'better quality' fluid is going to change braking performance. All liquids are virtually incompressable so as long as yours isnt boiling when braking a change isnt going to make much difference. Now moisture contamination, corrosion and cleanliness is another matter but theyre controlled by having regular changes of the fluid.....

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cliftyhanger
June 26, 2017, 11:45am Report to Moderator

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Apologies, for some reason I thought you were doing the 10CR (hence the passes comment)
You padchoice is probably correct then for what you want. ie  better than the std pads, but nothing too arduous..

(FWIW I used the code you posted to buy some antifreeze and spare oil filters, your efforts were not wasted! Thank you)


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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Matt306
June 26, 2017, 12:53pm Report to Moderator

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Just for clarity it was only once I felt the brakes needed an upgrade that was on the RBRR and that was only once on the whole trip when coming off Dartmoor. When the brakes cooled off they were fine again.

Ferny suggested better fluid, I use bog standard stuff clean and new like the rest of the components. Nice firm feel on the pedal.


Anyway if they are rubbish I'll let you all know.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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esxefi
June 26, 2017, 3:41pm Report to Moderator

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have had greenstuff fitted for over 20years now,only time they gassed up was at a brands track day in blistering heat.mind i'm using large vented discs and bigger calipers in a 2500spit so not a very good comparison.
I would rather they worked from cold when you need them in an emergency for the trade off of the unlikely event of them fading on Dartmoor or some such place.
tried ferodo ds2500s' once,orrible pads for the road/fast road,dusted to b*ggery,shredded the discs and squealed like a kicked pig,mind you the bite was good,picking my teeth out the dash.
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JohnD
June 26, 2017, 3:50pm Report to Moderator


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Emotive!?  

You shared your opinion of " bargain basement" brake pads, and I shared mine!
Never suggested anyone bought race pads, only what suited their driving.

Ifyoumust use EBC, trh their pad type selection questionnaire: https://ebcbrakes.com/ebc-brake-pad-selector-tool/

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Matt306
June 26, 2017, 4:19pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Emotive!?  

You shared your opinion of " bargain basement" brake pads, and I shared mine!
Never suggested anyone bought race pads, only what suited their driving.

Ifyoumust use EBC, trh their pad type selection questionnaire: https://ebcbrakes.com/ebc-brake-pad-selector-tool/

John


I can't use it as the BHP selection only goes as low as 60



Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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Bitumen Boy
June 26, 2017, 6:29pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from cliftyhanger
I will be controversial here. I use old stock asbestos pads that seem very capable everywhere, and lasting well.

(and despite what people say, there is very little health risk. Just think, there was not a trail of death left by every car from the early 1900's right up until they where phased out in the 1990's, or 2004 for pre 73 vehicles. As to asbestos related lung diseases, truly horrible, there is only a very slightly increased risk to those who worked long term as brake technicians, ie all day every day comparerd to the general population. take sensible precautions and the risk approaches zero.)


I agree 100%, Clive. I've been buying NOS pads for type 12 calipers (IMO perfectly good for road use) and have never had any problems. As to the supposed health risks, if asbestos linings were anything like as dangerous as some "experts" would have you believe then men of my dad's generation who always worked on their own cars and bikes ought to be dropping like flies with asbestos-related diseases, but it just isn't happening. But there, the risks are bound to be talked up when some people are making ££££££'s out of the "safe" treatment of asbestos...
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npanne
June 26, 2017, 6:32pm Report to Moderator


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Risks are probably minimal for the home mechanic who changes a set of pads once every couple of years,  but maybe it's a bit different if you work at a fitters and change four or five sets a day?
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JohnD
June 26, 2017, 7:06pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Matt306


I can't use it as the BHP selection only goes as low as 60



good point, well made.
But it's not the engine that stops the car.
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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JohnD
June 26, 2017, 7:09pm Report to Moderator


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But ..... I once met a farmer, with a mesothelioma, thr cancer that asbetos causes, and only asbestos causes.  He had one encounter with asbetsos that he could recall, fitting asbestos-based roofing to a barn.
JOhn


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Matt306
June 26, 2017, 7:28pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD


good point, well made.
But it's not the engine that stops the car.
John


Yes JohnD you are correct but as I can stop the car with bargain basement pads, I dont see the point in spending a load on expensive pads when the cheapest do the job. Greenstuff are rated for light cars for road use, which is what i do.

If they start to fade at hot I'll go get some grooved discs.



Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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cliftyhanger
June 26, 2017, 8:12pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from npanne
Risks are probably minimal for the home mechanic who changes a set of pads once every couple of years,  but maybe it's a bit different if you work at a fitters and change four or five sets a day?


I found a paper about the incidence of asbestos related deaths. For brake mechanics there was only a slightly increased incidence. I have a passing interest, I studied some of this stuff at Uni, and my first job involved analysis of suspected asbestos materials (in between all sorts of other lab work, much of it slightly bizarre)
You are probably more likely to get lung disease from keeping a budgie! (I jest not)


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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Nick Jones
June 26, 2017, 9:03pm Report to Moderator

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And definitely much more likely to get it from smoking......

Still genuinely curious to know how you find the Greenstuff pads Matt.  

Interesting also how people's experiences vary.  DS2500 are getting a bad review a couple of posts back, whereas I've been using them since 2009 (same set whole time in fact) and the only things I can find to gripe about was the initial purchase price, which made me take a deep breath at the time (though I now consider them good value even so) and that they have slightly less cold bite than Mintex M1144.  They work great, we haven't managed to fade them (and we've certainly tried), they've lasted nearly 30k so far with plenty of meat left, the discs are fine and dust rather less than either Mintex 1144 or Greenstuff.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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willows40
June 26, 2017, 9:07pm Report to Moderator

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I've had green stuff pads on my mgbgt auto with grooved discs for last 8 years, only thing I've really noticed is that if you do a lot of gentle braking for a few weeks, they do lose some feel and stopping gets worse. All I do is take it for a B road blast with heavy braking and that brings them back up. The pads are getting low now so will try mintex pads next time


1968 mk 1 estate for sale (now sold)
1967 vitesse convertible (needs rebuilding)
1967 mk1 gt6 (in bits)
1966 mk3 spitfire o/d (work in progress)
1984 Capri ( off road since 1999)
1977 stag ( floor rotten)
1970 herald convertible, 948 bonnet,twin carbs,o/d etc on road
1971 mgbgt auto (rolling resto)
19?? Herald/vitesse estate next project
1992 merc 190e auto (daily drive)
1973 mk3 gt6(project)
1962 herald coupe being rebuilt with vitesse running gear
1972  mgbgt
to many cars not enough time
location wymondham,norfolk
http://www.classic-resprays.co.uk
classic resprays and welding
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JohnD
June 26, 2017, 11:04pm Report to Moderator


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VENTED discs better use of your money.


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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ferny
June 27, 2017, 5:29am Report to Moderator

Mr Hoppy!
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You may not think brake fluid will make much difference, but it does. For years I used the Halfords own-brand stuff but found braking deteriorated after around 3 months. It was still fine to use, but I noticed a difference to the pedal feel. I moved to Pagid as others have said and was happy. Took around 11 months for the same to happen to it. Currently I use Millers 5.1 and it's superior in every way. I won't be swapping to another. My fluids get changed on a 12 month(ish) cycle.

As to asbestos pads. I'd say the ones I used were almost as good as the 1144's. Perhaps age had impacted their performance? I did also get them to fade at Donnington and I found as they were thin you could make them fade on the road.

I'd only recommend 1144's now to others. You may be happy with your Green Stuff, some people are. If you swapped to 1144's you'd probably like them more. According to that tool I should be using YellowStuff... Apparently even OrangeStuff if I go on track. Either way, the Green Stuff aren't "cheap pads" and won't cause you to crash. You'll still be able to lock your wheels up with them if needed.


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
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Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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Matt306
June 27, 2017, 5:59am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
VENTED discs better use of your money.


Will these fit standard calipers? I have seen solid grooved discs.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
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Matt306
June 27, 2017, 6:02am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ferny
You may not think brake fluid will make much difference, but it does. For years I used the Halfords own-brand stuff but found braking deteriorated after around 3 months. It was still fine to use, but I noticed a difference to the pedal feel. I moved to Pagid as others have said and was happy. Took around 11 months for the same to happen to it. Currently I use Millers 5.1 and it's superior in every way. I won't be swapping to another. My fluids get changed on a 12 month(ish) cycle.

As to asbestos pads. I'd say the ones I used were almost as good as the 1144's. Perhaps age had impacted their performance? I did also get them to fade at Donnington and I found as they were thin you could make them fade on the road.

I'd only recommend 1144's now to others. You may be happy with your Green Stuff, some people are. If you swapped to 1144's you'd probably like them more. According to that tool I should be using YellowStuff... Apparently even OrangeStuff if I go on track. Either way, the Green Stuff aren't "cheap pads" and won't cause you to crash. You'll still be able to lock your wheels up with them if needed.

I'll see how I  go on the green stuff then if rubbish change again. But Ill report back.



Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
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cliftyhanger
June 27, 2017, 6:59am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Matt306


Will these fit standard calipers? I have seen solid grooved discs.

No, not sure you can fit vented discs with type 12 or 14 calipers. You can git larger brakes, but the std ones should be fine.As a tip, how about removing your dust shields. You need to replace them with a washer to keep the calipers in the correct position, but removal should help the discs/brakes cool.

As to lung disease, the really high risks occur when exposed to asbestos/dusts/feathers etc AND you smoke. Risk increases hugely. IIRC (it was 39 years ago) tenfold or more.


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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Fixer6
June 27, 2017, 7:22am Report to Moderator
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I have had EBC green stuff pads for many years, on the second set. Never had a problem "coming off of Dartmoor" but I did once experience a severe fade at the bottom of Porlock Hill. Not the Alps but pretty steep.
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JohnD
June 27, 2017, 8:45am Report to Moderator


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Vented discs help keep your brakes cool and prevent fade.   Absolutely no doubt of that.  Many moderns are fitted with them as standard.

What do grooved or drilled discs do?    They are alleged to "release gasses" a highly dubious claim, as proper 'bedding in' should expel any residual solvents etc. and thereafter pads don't produce gas or vapour.    They are also alleged to scrape the pads clear of any metallic deposits by the action of the leading edge of the groove, which implies accelerated wear of both pad and disc.
Finally, drilling in particular weakens the disc, making it prone to cracking around each hole.  
None of these properties should commend grooved/drilled discs to anyone, especially one who is cost conscious.

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Spitfire6
June 27, 2017, 9:35pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from JohnD


good point, well made.
But it's not the engine that stops the car.
John


If it's a diesel.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
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G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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Matt306
July 4, 2017, 7:27pm Report to Moderator

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Greenstuff been in for a few day and with the standard steel disc definite upgrade ...


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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glang
July 4, 2017, 8:06pm Report to Moderator

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Thats pretty good going as they'll probably take a few miles to bed in completely - what has improved, bite, overall braking etc?
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JohnD
July 4, 2017, 9:02pm Report to Moderator


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I wish people wouldn't replace some defective part with new, and then extol that particular brand and type of new part, ignoring the possibility that the old was a bit dysfunctional.
Obviously it's never possible to do double blind cross-over trials, to avoid bias, but it is possible, for instance, to test brakes.
Your MoT station for instance.

But I'm just biased!
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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yorkshire_spam
July 5, 2017, 9:08am Report to Moderator

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Out of curiosity, do greenstuff require a bedding in/curing process like the M1144 do? I sometimes wonder if the varied opinions of M1144 might (in part) be down to people not following the correct procedure.
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Jonny-Jimbo
July 5, 2017, 10:32am Report to Moderator

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In Street use situations …
Bedding in when the red EBC surface coating (marked on the pads as Brake In) is applied.
Best procedure is to drive gently avoiding harsh braking unless in an emergency for first 100 miles. In the second 100 miles (up to 200) you can use gently increasing brake pressures when using the brakes.
Only after 200 miles urban driving (not 200 miles on a freeway where brakes are almost unused) should you attempt to apply heavy load and heat to the brakes. To do this final bedding on a QUIET ROAD in safe traffic apply the brakes and slow from 60 to 10 MPH five times in a row. Then drive slowly for a few minutes if safe to do so to allow the brakes to cool. Try to avoid coming to a rest whilst the brakes are heated.
A smell may be noticed from the warm brakes, this is normal. Repeat this procedure a second time after the brakes have TOTALLY cooled down. EBC pads get better with miles. Even after this bed in procedure it can take up to 1500 miles before the pads are at their best. In the meantime the pads will be good and safe but true potential not realised. EBC makes performance pads that last, they do not bed in within 5 minutes driving. Noises will be more likely during the first 1000-1500 miles use whilst this chemical bedding takes place.
NEVER attempt to sand or scotchbrite brake pads to assist it bedding in or noise reduction,this will only make things worse by taking the pads “Off-Flat” and require hundreds of miles driving to seat them again during which time the brakes will feel very dull. The only way to seat pads is against the rotor they will be used on and by following our bedding recommendation.


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Matt306
July 5, 2017, 11:47am Report to Moderator

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I've done near enough 100 miles now and feel better bite than el cheapo pads.


Johnd I hear what you are saying... These are fine for my use 60-70mph on roads with decent brake by gap.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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JohnD
July 5, 2017, 12:07pm Report to Moderator


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JJ,
was that the EBC recommendations on 'bedding in'?
I'm surprised they need such delay.  Does seem almost unsafe that new pads are not fully effective for 200 miles or more!
Most pads can be done immediately, by that process or similar.  It's not a physical thing, conforming their faces to the shape of the disc.   The objective is to condition the pads by heating them to the highest temp they will face, without fading them.  

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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glang
July 5, 2017, 12:22pm Report to Moderator

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Does anyone know what happens in the long term if this recommended procedure isnt followed?
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JohnD
July 5, 2017, 1:10pm Report to Moderator


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Nothing, except they may never be optimal.

This page offers a further reasosn for 'bedding in'.  They're the experts.
http://stoptech.com/technical-.....res/brake-pad-bed-in

Jhn


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Beans
July 5, 2017, 3:18pm Report to Moderator

Theo Boonen
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Quoted from yorkshire_spam
Out of curiosity, do greenstuff require a bedding in/curing process like the M1144 do? I sometimes wonder if the varied opinions of M1144 might (in part) be down to people not following the correct procedure.

All pads need bedding in properly.
The pads I have fitted over the years all came with bedding-in-instructions.

Never had had issues with Green Stuff or Mintex M1144 (or the M171 I currently have on one of the cars)
Only problems with pads so far was when I fitted some pads from a general brand (forgot its name)
After two trips into the Alps they were completely glazed (might be my driving style  )




1976 TR7 FHC (bought for its wheels in 2013, currently undergoing some TLC ...)
1980 TR7 DHC (a.k.a. Kermette, my first car bought in 1988 )
1981 TR7 FHC (Sprint engined, a.k.a. 't Kreng, bought as a parts donor in 1994, the rest is history as they say)

http://tr7beans.blogspot.com/
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Jonny-Jimbo
July 6, 2017, 8:00am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
JJ,
was that the EBC recommendations on 'bedding in'?
I'm surprised they need such delay.  Does seem almost unsafe that new pads are not fully effective for 200 miles or more!
Most pads can be done immediately, by that process or similar.  It's not a physical thing, conforming their faces to the shape of the disc.   The objective is to condition the pads by heating them to the highest temp they will face, without fading them.  

John


Yes John, that is lifted directly from the EBC website on bedding in procedure for their pads.



62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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glang
July 6, 2017, 3:12pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Nothing, except they may never be optimal.

This page offers a further reasosn for 'bedding in'.  They're the experts.
http://stoptech.com/technical-.....res/brake-pad-bed-in

Jhn


Reading this article indicates that the special bedding in process is to get a coating of pad material onto the disc which then improves high temperature performance of the brakes. It seems usual braking ie at lower temperatures is not much affected by having the coating or not so I assume that the difference felt by the user depends a lot on their driving style.
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Matt306
July 6, 2017, 8:05pm Report to Moderator

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Given my brakes are single circuit and designed decades ago... i treat them with caution and leave a good gap


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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1968Vitesse25
July 7, 2017, 10:05am Report to Moderator

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I too use NOS asbestos brakes. None of the modern materials is as good. The 'Holy Grail' of the brake industry after so many years remains to find a material as all round ideal as a braking medium.

If you are worried about the infinitesimal risk from the dust, when you change or adjust them, wear a paper mask and just wash down the shoes and mechanisms into a basin with brake cleaner.
The issue as brake shops was mechanics blowing off the dust day in, day out with airlines filling the shop with a persistent fog of brake dust.
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1968Vitesse25
July 7, 2017, 10:05am Report to Moderator

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I too use NOS asbestos brakes. None of the modern materials is as good. The 'Holy Grail' of the brake industry after so many years remains to find a material as all round ideal as a braking medium.

If you are worried about the infinitesimal risk from the dust, when you change or adjust them, wear a paper mask and just wash down the shoes and mechanisms into a basin with brake cleaner.
The issue as brake shops was mechanics blowing off the dust day in, day out with airlines filling the shop with a persistent fog of brake dust.
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cliftyhanger
July 7, 2017, 1:11pm Report to Moderator

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Paper masks are useless when it comes to asbestos. The fibres to worry about are the ones that need an electron microscope to see. When I was in the industry we tested for bigger fibres, if they where present we assumed the smaller ones were too.

Best advice, wash the brakes down (soapy water is ideal, or aerosol brake cleaner) and wash away. Never use an airline.
Same applies to clutches, and I bet the vast majority of our cars are still fitted with asbestos clutches.


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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