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Vitesse/Herald remote brake servo install position Print
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Nick Jones
June 2, 2017, 8:24pm Report to Moderator

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Yes, yes, I know they didn't have one as standard and they don't "need" one.  However, mine has always needed a very firm shove to stop it.  

After much tinkering over the years (every damn component rebuilt or renewed, various pads tried) it's been partially mitigated by a 5/8" M/C (some increase of pedal travel) and DS2500 pads, but still needs a hefty shove.  I'm bored with it (especially making the mental adjustment and recalibrating my right foot every time I swap cars) and the Management avoids driving it for this reason.

It's a reasonably fast car these days and the throttle has a very light action....... so the brake action doesn't compare well.

So, I had a rush of blood to the wallet (!) and bought a remote servo.  It's got 1:1.9 boost and I'll probably need to return to a 0.7" (or even 0.75") M/C to maintain a half decent pedal feel.  No worries there - but where the hell am I going to put the thing?  Getting it in at all is challenge enough, but getting it in tidily....... is it even possible?

Thoughts, pics?

TIA

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Pete Lewis
June 2, 2017, 8:51pm Report to Moderator

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The trouble with these fits all no clues kits is your left asking or devising

the more normal position is between heater and clutch master, the vac drum inboard the cylinder points over the clutch so it sits sideways not forwards.

Without knowing this I fitted mine by shortening the battery tray move it towards the n/s and add the support brkt between the heater and the moved battery tray
(can add a pic when back on laptop)

pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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glang
June 2, 2017, 9:10pm Report to Moderator

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orrrrrr what about battery in the boot and use the vacant space?
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Pete Lewis
June 3, 2017, 6:00am Report to Moderator

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this was our attempt, the sidefacing  makes the Mcyl zone a bit cluttered but is simple enough
heres pic of shortend tray and fitting



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1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Nick Jones
June 3, 2017, 9:19am Report to Moderator

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Hmm, that's the tidiest seen so far......  Not sure I'm up for modifying the battery tray though, especially as I have quite a bit more than the usual wiring in that area, including an EDIS unit.

One of the variations of horizontal/transverse over the master cylinders is probably the only option that doesn't involve significant other mods though it'll mean making bracketry from scratch.  I've got to replace both M/Cs anyway so remote reservoir options might be worth exploring......

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Alex
June 3, 2017, 11:00am Report to Moderator

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Anything stopping it being inside behind the dash?


Triumph spitfire 1500 white.....rbr04,06,2012,2014 and 2016


RBRR 2004,2006,2008,2010, 2012,2014 and 2016

Triumph spitfire 1500 Blue for sale.

Triumph Herald 1200 CV project.

Andover,Hants
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Pete Lewis
June 3, 2017, 12:31pm Report to Moderator

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my guess its just far to big to go behind any dash.  

ones ive seen mounted transverse  Im sure  used the kit bracket

they are not the best servo around I had two the first would hang the brakes on no mater how you stripped and aligned and freed air valves it just held them like a modern on hill start, you want to pull up, it decided you were going to stop a few seconds of aggro,  the replacement was wildy more lively,  the old one sits in the shed awaiting whatever
and search prices these vary its not dedicated to  triumph look at all the classic suppliers for the exact same fits all or nothing kit
you can save yourself  a rip off.

Pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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garyf
June 3, 2017, 2:44pm Report to Moderator

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Not sure if this will be any help or not, I fitted a Girling Powerstop servo to my Vitesse during its rebuild.

I think its a Model Mk2a, here's a couple of photo's of the Servo and brackets.

The servo was off a Mk2 Bond Equipe from a local Scrapyard in the early 80's, I had if fully rebuilt.

Its a slightly different size and shape to the Servo's offered now.

Hope it helps?

Gary



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marktheherald
June 3, 2017, 4:54pm Report to Moderator


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I found this photo amongst my downloads...



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13/60 (1500 o/d) Estate

Eastbourne. E.Sussex.

     FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
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Einar
June 3, 2017, 6:16pm Report to Moderator


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Scroll a bit down here: http://vitesse.no/Garage%202007-2008.html - however fitted for LHD.


Einar
Norway
1964 Vitesse 6 Conv., 2l engine, OD, LHD, Red
http://www.vitesse.no
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Bitumen Boy
June 5, 2017, 7:10pm Report to Moderator
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Been reading this thread with interest as I'd like to fit a servo to my Herald one day - not for the brakes but for the clutch, of course the only difference would be in the plumbing. Not that there's anything wrong with the clutch, but I have an ongoing problem with my left foot/ankle - fine when it's fine, but when it's bad (like now) I can't drive the car at all. I can still manage the modern which is pretty light on the clutch hence thinking that a servo would help. Best idea so far has been relocating the battery and mounting it over there, I'm a lazy mechanic and detest cars where you have to remove X to shift Y to even get a spanner onto Z (the Herald is pretty good for this in standard form) so mounting it over the master cylinders doesn't really appeal.
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Nick Jones
June 5, 2017, 8:31pm Report to Moderator

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Thanks all.  A number of options, all possible, but none ideal.

I've ordered some more pipe, fittings and a bigger diameter master cylinder and will have a go at it when they get here.  Also need to get some more 2mm plate as the supplied bracket limits the choices a bit.

I'll take some pics when I do it.

Remote servo on the clutch is an interesting one.  Not sure how that would work out.  I'd suggest just plumbing it up as a test and trying it to make sure it gives an acceptable result before going to the trouble of mounting it.  Some of the bigger Jap stuff (Nissan Patrol for one) do have a servo on the clutch but not the remote type.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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nang
June 6, 2017, 5:39am Report to Moderator

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Bitumen Boy. Out of left field, have a look at modern truck/bus clutch boosters. Much smaller than brake boosters.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec) owned since 1998.

1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
2003 BMW 525i Touring.
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poppyman
June 6, 2017, 8:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Bitumen Boy
Been reading this thread with interest as I'd like to fit a servo to my Herald one day - not for the brakes but for the clutch, of course the only difference would be in the plumbing. Not that there's anything wrong with the clutch, but I have an ongoing problem with my left foot/ankle - fine when it's fine, but when it's bad (like now) I can't drive the car at all. I can still manage the modern which is pretty light on the clutch hence thinking that a servo would help. Best idea so far has been relocating the battery and mounting it over there, I'm a lazy mechanic and detest cars where you have to remove X to shift Y to even get a spanner onto Z (the Herald is pretty good for this in standard form) so mounting it over the master cylinders doesn't really appeal.


if you check out some episodes of car "sos" fuzz put one on a clutch for a disabled guy
me, i just bought an automatic getting old
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garyf
June 6, 2017, 9:34am Report to Moderator

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I Once viewed a lovely Vitesse '6' Saloon finished in Conifer Green in Belper Derbyshire, must have been the late 80's

It was owned by an old lady and she was selling it because she was no longer able to drive it, this was a low mileage car and was fitted with a servo on the Clutch.

I used to see her tootling around Belper in it, hope its still around 'B' Reg I think it was.    
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Pete Lewis
June 7, 2017, 6:32am Report to Moderator

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Whilst theres not much space to spare but fitting a larger pedal pad can make an amazing change in the feel of the load applied


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Nick Jones
June 7, 2017, 6:25pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
Whilst theres not much space to spare but fitting a larger pedal pad can make an amazing change in the feel of the load applied


I have enough trouble with my great hooves getting all three pedals at once as it is......

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Bitumen Boy
June 7, 2017, 6:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Nick Jones


I have enough trouble with my great hooves getting all three pedals at once as it is......

Nick


I know what you mean, Nick. So far the only things I've driven with sensibly sized and spaced pedals have been buses and an old Landy, and yet I don't think my size 10s are anything out of the ordinary.

I've been having a look around online and what I want to do seems to be a fairly common mod on vehicles that have properly heavy clutches. Some don't like it, sometimes it doesn't work properly (quality of aftermarket components?) but the general feeling seems positive, and it's definitely something to go into in more detail when I have the time to do so.

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Bitumen Boy
June 7, 2017, 6:40pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from nang
Bitumen Boy. Out of left field, have a look at modern truck/bus clutch boosters. Much smaller than brake boosters.
Tony.


Tony, I'm no expert on this but I'd expect anything made for modern trucks or buses to be powered by air pressure rather than engine vacuum, but if I'm wrong there do let me know.

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nang
June 8, 2017, 5:22am Report to Moderator

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No, a lot of small Jappo vehicles are vacuum assisted.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec) owned since 1998.

1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
2003 BMW 525i Touring.
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RobPearce
June 8, 2017, 8:20am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
I have enough trouble with my great hooves getting all three pedals at once as it is......


I have a specific pair of shoes for driving Triumphs, with narrower soles than my normal daily footwear. And I'm only size 9.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Bitumen Boy
June 8, 2017, 10:41am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RobPearce


I have a specific pair of shoes for driving Triumphs, with narrower soles than my normal daily footwear. And I'm only size 9.


Strange but true, I also have special footwear for driving the Herald - clogs. I noticed a long time ago that boots with stiffer soles were more comfortable for driving this car and had them made up. The wooden soles are noticeably narrower for the size than anything you can buy made of rubber/plastic. Uppers are ex German para boots so plenty of ankle support yet I still feel the need of a servo...
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Mollysdad
June 11, 2017, 10:06am Report to Moderator

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Here is a servo I fitted to a mk2 Vitesse. I had to rebuild the heater box to move it over by 1" but all fitted nicely after that!



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Bitumen Boy
June 11, 2017, 6:35pm Report to Moderator
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That's neat. I like it!
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Nick Jones
June 11, 2017, 8:23pm Report to Moderator

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It is.  I like the colour too - what is it?

Nikc


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Bitumen Boy
June 12, 2017, 5:55pm Report to Moderator
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Just a thought - which type of heater was that? Looks a different shape to my Delaney so I'd guess at Smiths, but of course that could be down to the mods.
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Nick Jones
June 12, 2017, 6:34pm Report to Moderator

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That's a Smiths heater and offset to the left compared to standard.  One day I may put a Spit IV heater under the dash...... but not right now!

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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948coupe Downunder
June 13, 2017, 2:05am Report to Moderator

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With regard to the clutch you may find that much of the heaviness of the peddle comes from the heavy return spring adjacent to the slave cylinder maybe changing that out might just make things a little easier   maybe enough that a servo may not be needed
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Mark Hammond
June 13, 2017, 4:50am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 948coupe Downunder
With regard to the clutch you may find that much of the heaviness of the peddle comes from the heavy return spring adjacent to the slave cylinder maybe changing that out might just make things a little easier   maybe enough that a servo may not be needed


Only the early 948 Heralds have that spring and it won't affect the weight of the pedal anyway.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Mollysdad
June 16, 2017, 7:42am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
It is.  I like the colour too - what is it?

Nikc


It's called Yukon Grey. I think 1" might have been a bit of an exaggeration now that I think about it, more like 1/2" - it was a small enough move to make it both possible and annoying that it just didn't fit!



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Nick Jones
June 16, 2017, 11:18am Report to Moderator

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Good looking car - and nice to see a saloon!!

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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948coupe Downunder
July 5, 2017, 8:05am Report to Moderator

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Just thought I would share where I have installed a servo for my brakes Of course this required me to take off my carbs so that I could drill the manifold for a Vacuum take off which is absent on a 948 coupe
Its tight in there!

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1968Vitesse25
July 7, 2017, 10:10am Report to Moderator

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Any ideas what this is?



IT was on a Herald I saw on one of the classic car sale sites.
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glang
July 7, 2017, 11:22am Report to Moderator

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not sure what you mean as it looks like a standard remote brake servo to me. It is an older type servo but cant see anything unusual about it or the installation...
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garyf
July 7, 2017, 12:25pm Report to Moderator

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Girling Powerstop Brake Servo (As per the sticker).

A MkIIb one I think, similar to fitted to late Mk3 GT6's as standard.

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1968Vitesse25
July 7, 2017, 7:44pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from garyf
Girling Powerstop Brake Servo (As per the sticker).

A MkIIb one I think, similar to fitted to late Mk3 GT6's as standard.




Thank you.
I assume it's a split circuit Type rather than dual circuit?
I've been minded to fit a servo as I'm getting on a bit now.
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Nick Jones
July 7, 2017, 9:06pm Report to Moderator

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No, that's single circuit.

IIRC, some GT6s had dual circuit with a servo acting only on the front circuit.

On a recent track day, the brakes were actually quite excellent until we cooked the rears a bit, so I'm now pondering returning to M1144 pads on the front for maximum cold bite, but with vented discs for fade resistance.  The rears seem to be the biggest problem though would probably be ok with decent shoes (the ones I have at present are especially awful).  Maybe discs are the way to go.......

Meanwhile, I have this stray servo......

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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1968Vitesse25
July 7, 2017, 9:22pm Report to Moderator

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Can you fit the later wider GT6 drums of the back of a Vitesse?
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Nick Jones
July 8, 2017, 8:07am Report to Moderator

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I guess you could on  a swing axle Vitesse, but mine is rotoflex.  

I think the standard brakes would be ok for my purposes if I could find some decent quality shoes. M1144 lined would be perfect but last time I investigated that route there was a hefty minimum order quantity and they were pretty expensive.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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1968Vitesse25
July 8, 2017, 10:45am Report to Moderator

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1/4" spacers under the 1.5" drums not an option?
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glang
July 20, 2017, 9:28am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
Yes, yes, I know they didn't have one as standard and they don't "need" one.  However, mine has always needed a very firm shove to stop it.  

After much tinkering over the years (every damn component rebuilt or renewed, various pads tried) it's been partially mitigated by a 5/8" M/C (some increase of pedal travel) and DS2500 pads, but still needs a hefty shove.  I'm bored with it (especially making the mental adjustment and recalibrating my right foot every time I swap cars) and the Management avoids driving it for this reason.

It's a reasonably fast car these days and the throttle has a very light action....... so the brake action doesn't compare well.

So, I had a rush of blood to the wallet (!) and bought a remote servo.  It's got 1:1.9 boost and I'll probably need to return to a 0.7" (or even 0.75") M/C to maintain a half decent pedal feel.  No worries there - but where the hell am I going to put the thing?  Getting it in at all is challenge enough, but getting it in tidily....... is it even possible?


Thoughts, pics?

TIA

Nick


Hows this installation going Nick, any progress or results?

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For Sale-
Spitfire MKIV cylinder head, refurbed not used. Casting 312240, Stamp number 218142. Unleaded inserts, seats triple cut, new valves, guides and springs. Skimmed 0.040 inch. £300. Mob. 07764 860234 email: steve-karen.dee@ hotmail.co.uk
Pair of Stromberg CD 175 carburettors, linkage and mounting nuts. Removed from an American-spec TR6. Looking for £35. Based in Peterborough. Matt George on the forum or phone 07921 853482.
project colander aka 1973 1500tc dolomite - needs lots of welding but is largely complete though partly dismantled . contact dinger on the forum
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