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Johnnyj1000
May 28, 2017, 10:29am Report to Moderator

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Hi

I have been reading many, many posts across the various forums about the correct "breathing" arrangements on my Bond Equipe 2L Mk2 (oil filler cap, Smiths PCV, rocker cover pipe, T-piece to carbs, oil catch cans etc!). I want to install an effective set-up, but I have a problem: my car is fitted with SU HS6 carbs rather than Strombergs.

I am not going to change back to Strombergs, so from that starting point I wonder if anyone can advise what the breathing arrangements should be? I am concerned that I don't know enough about the effects the SUs will have had on the need for venting, and which bits may or may not now be superfluous. I hope that makes sense!

In essence, I am hoping someone will say "right, with SUs you need to plug the vent pipes on the carbs and ditch the Smiths valve" or "leave everything as it is" or whatever. You catch my drift.

Thanks in advance and here's a pic.

Cheers, John



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'67 Bond Equipe 2L Mk2 Convertible; '77 TR7 FHC.
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JohnD
May 28, 2017, 11:01am Report to Moderator


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You have as always choices.   SUs usually have a venting pipe.  If that is on only o e of them then it might make a tiny difference to the tune of each.   If both, then a balance tube between and a T connector to the crank vent will solve that.

Or else,do away with  venting into the engine.  A catch tank,  which is best mounted high so that the wide bore connecting tube drops down, usually to where the mechanical fuel pump.used to sit.    As fumes rise in the hose oil condenses and falls back to the sump.  An additional hose to catch rocker cover fumes and a filtered vent as some gas, ring blow by, will always get lost.

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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HMaze
May 28, 2017, 12:06pm Report to Moderator

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Turn the Smiths PCV around, It is connected the wrong way to function correctly..

Harry
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Nick Jones
May 28, 2017, 2:36pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from HMaze
Turn the Smiths PCV around, It is connected the wrong way to function correctly..

Harry


This is true.  However, the bottom connection needs to be connected to true manifold vacuum (normally a tapping on the manifold itself) and not the SU vent which are part of a later system.  What you have there is a combination of early and late systems, which can't work, even if you do connect the PCV valve correctly.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Johnnyj1000
May 28, 2017, 3:17pm Report to Moderator

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Hi all

Your responses and advice are exactly what I was after! Thank you.

Nick's in particular is very valuable, as it suggests I have a bit of a hotch potch on the car. This might explain why it has never run very well, despite multiple tune-ups (timing, carbs) and electronic ignition.

So, what I need is to install the PCV the right way round, and find somewhere to connect it to a proper manifold vacuum. Then I bin the two existing pipes from the carb vents which go into the T-piece. Do I then plug the two carb  vents, or just leave them open to the elements?

Cheers guys

John


'67 Bond Equipe 2L Mk2 Convertible; '77 TR7 FHC.
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HMaze
May 28, 2017, 5:03pm Report to Moderator

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Plug them, or you get an air leak-
Harry
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Johnnyj1000
May 28, 2017, 6:53pm Report to Moderator

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Thanks Harry, that's really helpful. So, if I have this correct:

1. Plug the carb vents
2. Refit the Smiths valve the right way around
3. Run the bottom pipe from the Smiths valve to an appropriate point on the manifold.
4. That's it, I guess.

I did find a blanked off hole on the manifold - see pic. Will it do?

Cheers

John



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'67 Bond Equipe 2L Mk2 Convertible; '77 TR7 FHC.
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Nick Jones
May 28, 2017, 7:11pm Report to Moderator

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You can choose between "early" and "late" systems.

The late one is simply a connection between the rocker box outlet and the two stubs on the SUs via a T-piece.  Simple, crude, doesn't really generate any vacuum inside the engine.

The better system is the early one and you would connect the bottom connection of the "flying saucer" PCV valve to the tapping on the manifold you have arrowed and the other connection to the rocker box.  Do check that the diaphragm in the PCV is intact and still flexible and also that the spring and plunger below it are still present.  The stubs on the SUs need to be either blanked off or could just be connected together with a link tube.

Looks like you have either a 2500S saloon manifold fitted or possibly one from a US market TR250 or TR6.  Is the engine itself a standard 2L?  Might be a little too much carb if so, and you should check what metering needles are fitted to the SUs - I think Dolly Sprint needles (BCM or BBT) are regarded as a good start point.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Johnnyj1000
May 28, 2017, 7:20pm Report to Moderator

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Thanks Nick, that is incredibly helpful. Somewhere in my memory is the idea that the car is fitted with a Triumph 2000 engine, not least because the distributor didn't have a tacho take-off (I think the 2000s had a strip speedo and no rev counter?). Would that explain the manifold?

As far as I know the engine is a 2L, but maybe I should try to find the engine number and check. The SUs currently have BDM needles fitted, which are stock TR7. I'll try to get hold of the ones you suggest, as the Dolly Sprint engine is a close relative  

I am going to go with your second suggestion and run a hose from the rocker cover, via the PCV, to the (currently) blanked off port on the manifold. I wonder where I might get the right adapter?

Re the PCV, the diaphragm is ok but I have lost the top clip which holds the whole thing together. I bet they're not available, so I may have to make something or buy a complete spare PCV.

Thanks again and all the best

John


'67 Bond Equipe 2L Mk2 Convertible; '77 TR7 FHC.
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Mark Hammond
May 28, 2017, 8:04pm Report to Moderator

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Er the Rover 2000 had a strip speedo, not the Triumph but neither had a rev counter.

M.


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Johnnyj1000
May 28, 2017, 8:09pm Report to Moderator

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Thanks Mark, I stand corrected and that rules out my theory. I'll get the engine number so to see what it is from, and of course it is quite possible that - whatever the origins of the engine -  the manifold is from one of the cars suggested by Nick.

Cheers

John


'67 Bond Equipe 2L Mk2 Convertible; '77 TR7 FHC.
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nang
May 29, 2017, 6:31am Report to Moderator

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Be careful when you undo the plug in the manifold.  I've found that they tend to grow together and strip the thread. Take it easy with the spanner.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec) owned since 1998.

1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
2003 BMW 525i Touring.
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Johnnyj1000
May 29, 2017, 7:02am Report to Moderator

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Thanks Tony. What do you reckon - lots of heat?


'67 Bond Equipe 2L Mk2 Convertible; '77 TR7 FHC.
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Richard B
May 29, 2017, 7:26am Report to Moderator

Richard Brake
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Twin HS6's on swan neck manifold was fitted to late 2000 MkII's


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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Johnnyj1000
May 29, 2017, 5:20pm Report to Moderator

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By way of an update, the engine number is HC54***HE, which would suggest it is original, or at least from a 2L Vitesse. The manifold is short on markings, other than "DD2" and the BL "swirling plug hole" logo.

I did do a bit of work on the car today, but before I get into that I wonder if a little back story might help. My brother gave me the car about 15 years ago and it was running badly. The Strombergs were worn out with vacuum leaks everywhere and the airfilter box didn't fit, so I took them to a well-known carb man in Lincolnshire for refurb, whereupon he sold me a brand new pair of SU HS6s with the words "that's a lovely conversion".

Ever since then (so, in effect ever since I have had the car) it hasn't run right. Every now and then, usually measured in years, I have a really good go at "doling the carbs", like now, and usually am disappointed. So, the Bond tends to sit in the garage gathering dust as I just don't trust it. Last time I took it out, it conked out halfway across the A5 into the path of an oncoming lorry. Not nice.

So, today I pinched a hose adapter off a spare TR7 manifold I had knocking about and did the work suggested above, albeit without the Smiths PCV valve as I need a new top clip for it. The SU vents were blanked off and the carbs set up with the jet flush to the top of the bridge, then turned down 12 flats on both. It ran like a pig, so I began to incrementally turn the jets one flat at a time. I got an ok-ish idle (too fast, actually) without the throttle screws connected, but got very conflicting results. The exhaust smelt very rich and of fuel, yet if I do the piston raiser test, the results would indicate too lean. It does also tend to momentarily misfire, like a plug or lead is breaking down. It has always done that, despite changes of both and a new distributor.

There we go, another day's tinkering but always the same result! However, at least I now know that the breathing is correct. Some general thoughts:

1. The misfire could be another engine problem and will be there irrespective of the carbs
2. I could ditch the SUs and use them in my TR7 rebuild, and find some Strombergs for the Bond (but I bet I'll then have trouble finding an air filter box to fit, given the manifold is non-standard)

Anyone know a carb wizard in Northants? It is going to take an old hand to find this, I think.

Thanks all

John



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