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Triumph Torque    Cars    Herald/Vitesse  ›  Vitesse Noisy Gearbox / Over Drive Upgrade
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Vitesse Noisy Gearbox / Over Drive Upgrade Print
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Matt306
April 24, 2017, 8:25pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jason C
Hi Matt, thanks for the recommendation — by chance do you have the name of the business? The birthplace of Rugby, nice, there are a few people around these parts into Rugby.

Trying to track down any New Zealand specialists. I was once told of a man known simply as "The Over Drive Man" ... ha, no name, no address. Interestingly noticed http://www.quantumechanics.com mentions NZ as one site of manufacturing.


http://www.odspares.com/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/odspares?opendocument&part=2

I took my Ebay OD to them for advice on a rebuild.  Free advice and the parts are cheaper than most other suppliers as they supply them!


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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daver clasper
April 24, 2017, 8:44pm Report to Moderator
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Yes. Had some great, friendly advice from Overdrive Spares (Dave Twigger I think) and some small parts supplied very reasonably priced.
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Nick Jones
April 24, 2017, 9:07pm Report to Moderator

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Noisy in 2nd and 3rd probably means the mainshaft tip bearing has failed, which usually spoils the mainshaft tip and often the inside of the input shaft.  Weakest part of a fairly weak gearbox.

Could be rebuilt with a new mainshaft, preferably an uprated one with the bigger tip.  Well worth adding overdrive.  D type is fine and will be easier to find.  There are various combinations of Dolomite 1850, TR7 and even Marina/Ital that can be used but some expertise is needed.

The other route is to fit a modern (ish) 5 speed.  The candidates are
Ford T9.  Reasonably straight forward as uses an adaptor block to mate the original gearbox with the Ford box and kits are available from various places.  You really need to start with the 'box from a V6 2.8 engined car (Capri, Granada) which may be a problem in NZ?  They are pretty hard to find and very expensive here now.
Toyota T50
Toyota W58
There is a NZ company who does conversions using the Toyota 'boxes
http://www.conversioncomp.com/aboutus.php

The W58 is good (I like mine) but really it's overkill for a 2L Triumph.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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re5rotary
April 25, 2017, 12:25am Report to Moderator

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Hi Jason where in New Zealand are you? Im in Christchurch and could rebuild your gearbox and/or fit an overdrive for you   regards Terry
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nang
April 25, 2017, 5:17am Report to Moderator

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Matt,
If you're up north get hold of Ian Priestly in Taumarunui. Caddi57 on trademe. Ask a question on one of his listings,he's very helpful.
He did my 2500 box, and overdrive with new bearings for a lot less than you were quoted.
If you're down south I'm sure Terry could do the same thing.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec) owned since 1998.

1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
2003 BMW 525i Touring.
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nang
April 25, 2017, 5:32am Report to Moderator

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Sorry Matt, that link won't work. Go to trademe and put in 1308924453.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec) owned since 1998.

1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
2003 BMW 525i Touring.
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Jason C
April 25, 2017, 7:15am Report to Moderator


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Quoted from re5rotary
Hi Jason where in New Zealand are you? Im in Christchurch and could rebuild your gearbox and/or fit an overdrive for you   regards Terry


Hi Terry, thanks for reaching out! I'm in Te Awamutu (near Hamilton), finding someone nearby would be ideal, however willing to travel to get the job done well. Or could you supply a reconditioned gearbox or gearbox with OD to install up here?

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Jason C
April 25, 2017, 7:23am Report to Moderator


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Quoted from nang
Matt,
If you're up north get hold of Ian Priestly in Taumarunui. Caddi57 on trademe. Ask a question on one of his listings,he's very helpful.
He did my 2500 box, and overdrive with new bearings for a lot less than you were quoted.
If you're down south I'm sure Terry could do the same thing.
Tony.


Hi Tony, thank you for the recommendation. May I ask, how did you find the quality of the reconditioned gearbox from Ian?
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Jason C
April 25, 2017, 8:20am Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Nick Jones
Noisy in 2nd and 3rd probably means the mainshaft tip bearing has failed, which usually spoils the mainshaft tip and often the inside of the input shaft.  Weakest part of a fairly weak gearbox.

Could be rebuilt with a new mainshaft, preferably an uprated one with the bigger tip.  Well worth adding overdrive.  D type is fine and will be easier to find.  There are various combinations of Dolomite 1850, TR7 and even Marina/Ital that can be used but some expertise is needed.

The other route is to fit a modern (ish) 5 speed.  The candidates are
Ford T9.  Reasonably straight forward as uses an adaptor block to mate the original gearbox with the Ford box and kits are available from various places.  You really need to start with the 'box from a V6 2.8 engined car (Capri, Granada) which may be a problem in NZ?  They are pretty hard to find and very expensive here now.
Toyota T50
Toyota W58
There is a NZ company who does conversions using the Toyota 'boxes
http://www.conversioncomp.com/aboutus.php

The W58 is good (I like mine) but really it's overkill for a 2L Triumph.

Nick


Hi Nick, thank you for the detailed information and the link, fantastic! It appears the NZ company uses a gearbox from a Toyota Supra which I'm sure is more than up to the job. With your Toyota five speed conversion did you find it fits well inside the cabin, similar position and how about the shift ratio - better or close to the original? Curious if it looks and feels at home in the interior. Found it noticeably quieter than traditional Triumph box? How about gearing etc... Sorry about all the questions!
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Jason C
April 25, 2017, 8:26am Report to Moderator


Posts: 75
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An update on my research. I also reached out to Quantum Mechanics they have an option of a GT6 version (both 4 speed and a version with OD), he mentioned the main advantage of the GT6 gearbox was the synchro in first gear. But I thought the Vitesse Mark 2/3 already had a 4 speed synchronised gearbox? With the Vitesse 1600 that was missing the synchro in first, maybe I'm incorrect.
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RobPearce
April 25, 2017, 11:45am Report to Moderator

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The 2L Vitesse gearbox is identical to the GT6 gearbox apart from being stamped with an H rather than a K. The 1600 was the weaker, wider ratio, 3-synchro from the Herald.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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nang
April 25, 2017, 7:33pm Report to Moderator

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Matt,
Ian did a great job. I think he used to have a gearbox factory in Hamilton. He also overhauled my J type overdrive. Since you are so close defiantly worth a look.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec) owned since 1998.

1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
2003 BMW 525i Touring.
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re5rotary
April 26, 2017, 6:11am Report to Moderator

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Hi Jason I would probably have to rebuild your own gearbox but could convert it to overdrive at the same time. The mainshaft probably needs replacing anyway so an OD type wouldn't cost anymore. I could probably find a J type overdrive to rebuild and the conversion parts are available out of the UK. If you do the OD conversion we/you would also need a gearbox mount and plate, some bits for the inhibitor switch arrangement and the switch that goes on the steering column or an OD gearstick with the switch on the top. The column switch is correct for the Vitesse. You would also need to shorten the propshaft as the gearbox with OD is longer than the non OD box
I used to run a Triumph service shop for many years and have done many gearbox rebuilds and overdrive conversions. I now work at Upper Classics a restoration workshop in Chch. Have a look at our website if you want to see the work we do   regards Terry
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Nick Jones
April 26, 2017, 7:35pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jason C


Hi Nick, thank you for the detailed information and the link, fantastic! It appears the NZ company uses a gearbox from a Toyota Supra which I'm sure is more than up to the job. With your Toyota five speed conversion did you find it fits well inside the cabin, similar position and how about the shift ratio - better or close to the original? Curious if it looks and feels at home in the interior. Found it noticeably quieter than traditional Triumph box? How about gearing etc... Sorry about all the questions!


The W58 is a Supra box (also Lotus Excel, some Soarer models and possibly some other JDM saloons).  Also available as the W57, called "close ratio" box, which is much the same but less desirable (in my eyes) due to a shorter 5th gear.  There is also the W56 which is used in the 2WD trucks and has unsuitable ratios.

Some info on my conversion here
https://www.triumphowners.com/to-car/vitesse-mkiii-efi/

I chose the W58 because they were relatively cheap and available at the time.   They are neither cheap or easy to find now now, but Supras were never that common here in manual form and are mostly gone now.  It also has pretty decent ratios (especially if you run a taller than standard diff), a nice change and should be unbustable behind any Triumph engine.  Mine isn't that quiet (it had a hard life in a Supra before coming to me) but still has a nice change.  It's big, but it does fit - the lumps and bumps suit the contours of the Triumph chassis quite well.  I had to bend the chassis flanges down to clear it in places but no chopping needed.  The gear lever comes out in the standard place.

I don't know that much about the T50 box, which came mainly from the RWD Celicas and have been rocking horse-poo-rare here for years.  I would have liked one but soon realised I'd never find one.  More common in your part of the world though.  They are a bit more sensibly sized and, I'd think, a good combination with a standardish Triumph 2L.  I do know of several in GT6s but never come across one in a Vitesse - no reason why not though.  Craig on the Sideways forum knows about these and is in the process of converting another GT6.

TBH, when in good condition the Triumph box has great ratios and a good change.  It's just the fragility.  If you can get one built up with an upgraded mainshaft and OD by someone who knows what they are doing, it will be fine with a standard engine unless you use it very hard.

A Triumph 2000/2500 propshaft fits a Vitesse with D-type OD.  J-type is the same if based a 3 rail Dolomite gearbox but needs to be 1" shorter if based on the later single rail box.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Jason C
April 27, 2017, 7:15am Report to Moderator


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Thanks Nick, this is really great information. And really interesting reading about your modifications on the Triumph Owners website. I was also reading somewhere about the diff and getting the gear ratio right, another thing I hadn't considered...
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