oil pump :: Triumph Torque

Moordale Motors

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
oil pump
Forum Login
Login Name: Create a new account
Password:     Forgot password

Triumph Torque    Cars    Herald/Vitesse  ›  oil pump
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 22 Guests

oil pump Print
1 Pages 1 Recommend Thread
Matt306
April 18, 2017, 8:50am Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 770
Posts Per Day: 0.29
I never worked much on the engine, but now have an mot might start fiddling to eek out a few more BHP. I have noticed when hot the oil pressure at idle is low. I never disturbed the oil pump so might look at swapping this out. As some holiday reading http://www.totallytriumph.net/spitfire/engine_building.shtml this suggested you could use a 1500 spit oil pump on earlier engines. I am thinking this would apply to herald 1300 engines pluses seem to be price, any reason not to?
I am using Halfords standard historic 20/50 oil.

I know oil pressure won't help BHP, however to low oil pressure will ensure no BHP.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
Logged
Private Message
rustbuckit2011
April 18, 2017, 10:17am Report to Moderator


Posts: 102
Posts Per Day: 0.05
Yeah do it. Its easier to find and the same pump used on the 6 and apparently ford pintos. Should be ample for the 1300. Its a direct swap, no modification necessary. Having said that, I dont think there is anything wrong with the oe pump fitted to standard engines up to spitfire spec- they just require their tolerances checked and flat surfaces lapped.


1960 Herald Coupe Replica - mazda, datsun, and all over the garage floor
1964 Herald 1200 coupe - standard.

https://www.facebook.com/rust.buckit.94
Logged
Private Message Reply: 1 - 14
cliftyhanger
April 18, 2017, 10:33am Report to Moderator

Moderator
Posts: 11,026
Posts Per Day: 2.24
The most leikely cause of low oil pressure is worn crank bearings.
However, if you intend to have the sump off anyway, it is little extra work to drop the big end caps and inspect the bearings. A change to new ones will improve things hugely. SWapping the main bearings is a little trickier, but again possible in situ, and while you are there do teh thrusts too.....

Likely your pump is better than any of the new ones available.......

Also, check the pressure relief valve is shutting totally, maybe a new spring for that? and check the surface to make sure it is undamaged.


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
Logged
Private Message Reply: 2 - 14
Steve P
April 18, 2017, 11:31am Report to Moderator
Club Member
Posts: 877
Posts Per Day: 0.21
I got better pressure, especially when hot using a decent oil.
I always use Valvoline VR1 in mine.

Steve


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
Logged
Private Message Reply: 3 - 14
Matt306
April 18, 2017, 12:52pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 770
Posts Per Day: 0.29
Quoted from cliftyhanger
The most leikely cause of low oil pressure is worn crank bearings.
However, if you intend to have the sump off anyway, it is little extra work to drop the big end caps and inspect the bearings. A change to new ones will improve things hugely. SWapping the main bearings is a little trickier, but again possible in situ, and while you are there do teh thrusts too.....

Likely your pump is better than any of the new ones available.......

Also, check the pressure relief valve is shutting totally, maybe a new spring for that? and check the surface to make sure it is undamaged.


When I did the car the engine had minimal work as it ran. I did take the head off and put in new valves guides and skimmed the head. Worn rocker gear was replaced too. New core plugs and seals all round. The sump was taken off but didn't touch oil pump. Since then we have completed RBRR. Engine bearings haven't been looked at all. Canleys standard size bearings make it a no brainer to change.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
Logged
Private Message Reply: 4 - 14
cliftyhanger
April 18, 2017, 2:12pm Report to Moderator

Moderator
Posts: 11,026
Posts Per Day: 2.24
Do check the bearings for size. It is very possible the crank has already had a regrind, and yiou won't know until you take the bearings out.

And pay the few pounds extra for the HD or LC bearings, they should last better.


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
Logged
Private Message Reply: 5 - 14
Matt306
April 18, 2017, 3:42pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 770
Posts Per Day: 0.29
Simpleton question HD/LC?


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
Logged
Private Message Reply: 6 - 14
cliftyhanger
April 18, 2017, 4:12pm Report to Moderator

Moderator
Posts: 11,026
Posts Per Day: 2.24
Sorry. HD-heavy duty. LC lead copper.
The "better" bearings are marked as such.

Ideally a set of vandervell, but they are rocking horse poo these days, County/King bearings are about the only easy to find ones.


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
Logged
Private Message Reply: 7 - 14
Matt306
April 18, 2017, 4:16pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 770
Posts Per Day: 0.29
Candles sell LC bearings so ill go for them


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
Logged
Private Message Reply: 8 - 14
Matt306
April 19, 2017, 2:22pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 770
Posts Per Day: 0.29
I take it the only way i'll know if the bearings are oversize is to take em out? Are they marked oversized or is it measure the bearing or shaft


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
Logged
Private Message Reply: 9 - 14
JumpingFrog
April 19, 2017, 2:44pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 36
Posts Per Day: 0.02
Quoted from Matt306
I take it the only way i'll know if the bearings are oversize is to take em out? Are they marked oversized or is it measure the bearing or shaft


You have to take them out unfortunately. They will be marked on the backs. Something like "010" would be 10 thou undersize. There should be nothing other than a part number and manufacturers name/mark if they are standard size.

One thing worth adding is that the Spitfire oil pump may need to be slightly modified to fit, I'm current rebuilding a 1296cc engine and have a Spit 1500 oil pump to go in. However, when I test fitted it I could get a 10 thou feel gauge under the rear of the pump (which wouldn't be ideal for oil pressure). I think I'll have to fettle the casing of the pump (it contacts the side of the block) with a file to allow it to sit flush.


1971 Herald 13/60 Saloon - Just about on the road.
1967 Herald 1200 Estate - Rebuild in progress, just about rolls - http://mongoltriumph.com
Logged
Private Message Reply: 10 - 14
Nick Jones
April 19, 2017, 6:44pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 9,938
Posts Per Day: 2.21
Check the clearances on the new pump carefully.  They may not be better than your old one!

The  aluminium bodied 1500 pump is higher capacity than the early iron bodied pumps, but the alloy body means the end float on the gears increases more with temperature so they don't always give better hot idle oil pressure.  It is not the same as the 6 cylinder pump and not the same as the Ford pinto pump (well, possibly the gears are same as pinto ones but the rest certainly isn't).  They also turn up with strange pick-up pipes sometimes (Dolly?  Midget?) and if your engine is early enough to have a strainer gauze across the top of the sump you'll have to find a way around that.  May be possible to use the end cover from the original pump after lapping out any scratching/scoring on it's working surface but do check that the port lines up properly.

JF's point above is well made - also check the outlet port lines up properly with the oilway in the block.

As already said, bearings will be marked with 010, 020 or whatever if the crank has been ground.  Usually the big ends will be showing some copper as will the bottom of the centre main and the bottom of the rear main.  The front main is usually better and if the rear main shows no or very little copper I've been known to leave the front alone to avoid disturbing the bridge-piece and gaskets at the front.  If none of them shows any copper, either they've been changed quite recently or they are aluminium tin bearings.....

Don't forget the thrust washers on the rear main.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
Logged
Private Message Reply: 11 - 14
Matt306
April 23, 2017, 9:36am Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 770
Posts Per Day: 0.29
On my Oil pressure guage, I have the following readings

Cold idle around 50 PSI
Hot Idle around 5-10 PSI
Hot 3000 RPM (drive) 30-40 PSI
Hot 4000 RPM (Revving) 50 PSI

Any thoughts before the sump comes off.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
Logged
Private Message Reply: 12 - 14
daver clasper
April 23, 2017, 11:55am Report to Moderator
Club Member
Posts: 435
Posts Per Day: 0.28
There is a factory figure for oil pressure (for example the 2 litre 6 cylinder is between 40-60 at 2000 rpm , toward the higher end better). None given for idle, though I think 20+ is considerd ok.

Dave
Logged
Private Message Reply: 13 - 14
Nick Jones
April 23, 2017, 2:37pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 9,938
Posts Per Day: 2.21
On the low side but not awful.

A set of shells could well bump those up 10 - 15psi on their own.

Nick

Quoted from Matt306
On my Oil pressure guage, I have the following readings

Cold idle around 50 PSI
Hot Idle around 5-10 PSI
Hot 3000 RPM (drive) 30-40 PSI
Hot 4000 RPM (Revving) 50 PSI

Any thoughts before the sump comes off.




Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
Logged
Private Message Reply: 14 - 14
1 Pages 1 Recommend Thread
Print

Triumph Torque    Cars    Herald/Vitesse  ›  oil pump

Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread
 


Powered by E-Blah Forum Software 10.3.5 © 2001-2008

Latest Blogs-
Steve Weblin

16th December 2017 07:30am gmt
Loxhams - Triumph Car Dealers 54
Rob Pearce

15th December 2017 10:31pm gmt
They Think The Welding's All Over...
more blogs...
Next Group Meetings-
North London & Herts Monday 18th December 20:00
Glasgow Tuesday 19th December 20:00
Shropshire Wednesday 20th December 19:00
West Midlands - 2nd meeting Wednesday 20th December 20:00
Southern Area 2nd meeting Thursday 21st December 20:00
Nottingham Monday 25th December 19:00
Essex Tuesday 26th December 20:00
more local groups...
Upcoming Events-
more events...
For Sale-
Spitfire MKIV cylinder head, refurbed not used. Casting 312240, Stamp number 218142. Unleaded inserts, seats triple cut, new valves, guides and springs. Skimmed 0.040 inch. £300. Mob. 07764 860234 email: steve-karen.dee@ hotmail.co.uk
Pair of Stromberg CD 175 carburettors, linkage and mounting nuts. Removed from an American-spec TR6. Looking for £35. Based in Peterborough. Matt George on the forum or phone 07921 853482.
Wanted-

Herald Britax Weathershield Sun Roof, complete please. Bob Angell robertvangell1@ btinternet.com King’s Lynn Norfolk

more adverts...
CLUB TRIUMPH the Club for all Triumphs
© Club Triumph Ltd MCMXCVI - MMXV