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Triumph Torque    Cars    Herald/Vitesse  ›  Vitesse — Coolant Escaping When Hot
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Vitesse — Coolant Escaping When Hot Print
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Jason C
April 28, 2017, 9:08am Report to Moderator


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Agree, won't be planning to permanently run without a thermostat. There must be a few different temperature ranges for thermostats? Mine 82 C / 180 F. Sound correct? With the radiator cap pressure rating of 0.5. Coolant definitely not milky, solid bright green in consistency. Will form bubbles from air when squirting out bottle, then settle to normal looking coolant.
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Davemate
April 28, 2017, 12:22pm Report to Moderator


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Engine cold
Remove rad cap
Run engine
Look into top of rad and see if you can see bubbles continually appearing in the rad.

If you see bubbles I'd suggest you either buy a "sniff" testing kit or take it to a garage who will do a sniff test
This will tell you if you have a blown head gasket or not


Herald 1500,rallyfied- overdrive,swing spring with 1500 spit diff,440lb front springs, adjustable height spax on front and back, trunionless conversion,thicker arb,rear roll cage,harnesses,bucket seats,extra gauges,Vitesse steering wheel,genuine 5.5j smoothies wheels,4 branch manifold
Still for sale

Mk1 2000 saloon,now a 2.5   

Timing marshal CT autosolo Bovington 2011,2012,half of 2013,2014 and 2016
Marshalled Essex winter rally 2013
RBRR 2012, co driver
24th Nachtrit 2012, navigator
Chinese rally 2013, navigator
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RBRR 2014, co driver
Essex winter rally 2014,navigator
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glang
April 28, 2017, 6:40pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jason C
Agree, won't be planning to permanently run without a thermostat. There must be a few different temperature ranges for thermostats? Mine 82 C / 180 F. Sound correct? With the radiator cap pressure rating of 0.5. Coolant definitely not milky, solid bright green in consistency. Will form bubbles from air when squirting out bottle, then settle to normal looking coolant.

Looks like youve got a midrange thermostat fitted, there is a 74deg summer one but your engine isnt getting too hot so cant see that being the problem. The cap is the correct lower 7lb rating one (13lb also available) but could be lifting early so a replacement could be worth a go or try Dave's suggestion.....  
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Jason C
May 5, 2017, 5:17am Report to Moderator


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Had some time today to investigate coolant issue further;

- Tested thermostat outside of car, looks to be opening/closing correctly.
- Replaced radiator cap with Tridon cap
- Refitted thermostat

From cold start, as Dave suggested ran car with radiator cap off checking for air bubbles. No air bubbles visible. From cold start with 1/4 fill overflow bottle, ran until hot. Overflow bottle rises till about 1/2 way when the engine is hot, engine temp remains midway on needle. Left idling for around 30mins, revving engine off and on, temp and engine don't look to be overheating. Decided to take the car for a run, periodically stopping to check overflow. Idled car again, temp needle now moving to 1/2 way between the middle and HOT range... looked to remain there (assume just due to idling stationary with hot engine, without electric fan tech?). Drove the car a little more, (once on highway engine temperature via gauge quickly cooled down to midway) and sure enough overflow bottle started spraying. Appears the reason it looked to be working OK longer was because the overflow bottle was less full when started.

Also, when starting cold today wondered if it was running on one less cylinder, rough idle for a while then smoothed out.
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nang
May 5, 2017, 5:25am Report to Moderator

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Next suggestion... engine compression test on all cylinders.....should all be similar.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec) owned since 1998.

1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
2003 BMW 525i Touring.
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Pete Lewis
May 5, 2017, 6:24pm Report to Moderator

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Def has the sound of head gasket  letting combustion pressures into the water jacket
Being high pressure , then parked over  night  the water pressure lets some into a  bore and you get the tell tale   short period misfire on start up

pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Nick Jones
May 5, 2017, 7:24pm Report to Moderator

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HGF very rare on the Mk2s (nice fat head studs and real torque on the head nuts), but rather less rare on the Mk1........

If you are getting water into a combustion chamber when hot this will show up as a very clean (steam cleaned) spark plug, though if it's only getting in as the engine cools this may not show up.

Only other thought is that if you have poor coolant flow for some reason (clogged waterways, corroded pump vanes/housing, partially blocked radiator), you might be getting localised boiling in the head, which tends to spit water out.

You can get various test kits that claim to detect combustion products in the coolant.  Not used them myself.....

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Spitfire6
May 5, 2017, 8:54pm Report to Moderator


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Hi Jason C,
Not a fix to your problem, but, as your engine is unlikely to experience freezing conditions, reduce your "antifreeze" to 25%. You will still have the anti-corrosion properties you desire but gain on heat reduction.
What strength of anti-freeze are you running anyhow as its a poor conductor?

Cheers,
Iain.


Me in Burnley, GB
Spitfire 6 EFI Alpha N (Emerald K3 ECU). Big fat 215/40/16's on the backside. (They fit and minimal camber change). Custom cooling system with 20% EG for winter with 2% corrosion inhibitor. LED's all round. NT 5W40 Oil. 3.27 diff with a LSD by Quaife. TR6 Transmission + J Type.

PUG 206CC 2L twin-Cam. NT 5W40 Oil
Automation and control systems engineer.
RIP Step-7 Classic. Long live Portal V14
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G6SBH
Yaesu FT 102 with all the extra's.

http://www.SpitFire6.UK               Main site- work in progress

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Jason C
May 6, 2017, 7:05am Report to Moderator


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Thank you all for the suggestions! Warmed the engine and tested the compression. The compression looks OK:

1: 100
2: 105
3. 95
4. 100
5. 100
6. 95

Doesn't seem anything out of the ordinary? Only slight variation. Turned over 3 times each cylinder with fully charged battery with throttle open and cycled back to the first two to check, results similar. Gauge moved upwards quickly. Inspected spark plugs, a little oily on the threads and a little black carbon build up. Wire brushed spark plugs clean and refitted.

Nick Jones: Removed spark plugs recording position, no sign of any spark plug looking different or steam cleaned.
Iain: Regarding antifreeze current ratio is 50%.

Hmm, what next... I'm wondering if I should be looking towards the radiator? It seems the only other area where the coolant system could be clogged? Water pump has been serviced, radiator cap replaced, no sign of leaks in heater system. Also tested with heater system on. Or should I be looking towards a 'sniffer test'?

Thanks for the help, most appreciated.
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cliftyhanger
May 6, 2017, 7:33am Report to Moderator

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Your rad cap is0.5 bar? that is low about 7psi. I thought Vitesse used a 13lb cap (same as most minis etc) and worth a try.
Next question, can you check the actual temp of the coolant? If you can borrow a capillary gauge that would be handy as they can be checked for calibration in akettle of boiling water. Or buy a cheap digital thermometer, I recently bought one of these and it seems pretty accurate (mead 99.7 in boiling water)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LCD-.....2:g:zggAAOSwv0tVKIlB

The leads are pretty thin, so you could poke it in the radiator by loosening a hose.

getting an actual temperature would help, if it genuinely is too hot then either rad is blocked or engine is running too hot
If not overheating it must be the radcap (or HGF, which seems unlikely at the moment)

Have you flushed the engine out? including clearing out via the block drain plug? (located under the manifolds near the rear of the block) Usually requires a good poke about with wire and so on. A length of handbrake cable is good as it is flexible enough, but take most of the engine hoses off including the heater ones, and use a hose to flush everything backwards and forwards. Amazing what comes out, especially the heaters. I tend to then add some radflush type cleaner to get rid of any more stuff, and then flush that out before refilling with coolant. Apols if this has already been done.

Rads can be checked by a specialist. And if clocked but otherwise good condition, can have the header tank removed, the tubes poked clear and tank refixed, much cheaper than a rebuild. If you can find somebody to do it.


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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Jason C
May 6, 2017, 9:01am Report to Moderator


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Thanks Clive,

Haven't tried flushing the system out, sounds like the next place to have a go. In terms of radiator cap *think* I have the correct one, from what I can determine from the manual;

"Reject the cap if it will not register and maintain 7lbs./sq.in (…)"

Looks like the GT6 Mark 3, maybe Vitesse Mark 2 have the 13lb?

"Note: GT6 Mark 3 models are fitted with a 13lb./ sq in pressure cooling system."

To clarify you mean gently slide thermometer inside radiator, via cap hole (try and slide between cores, deeper down) to see if it's boiling/overheating?
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cliftyhanger
May 6, 2017, 9:22am Report to Moderator

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Rethermometer, yes. The probe is on pretty thin wire, and certainly is OK in boilingwater. That way you would get an idea of actual water temp. It would help see if temperature was the issue.And those thermometers are so cheap. I bought it to calibrate some sensors on my new engine.


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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Pete Lewis
May 6, 2017, 1:20pm Report to Moderator

Tssc Herts and Beds A.O.
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certainly if rad tubes are capped on the top the air trapped inside expands when the rad gets heated and the change in air volume pumps out a lltre or so, it cools and all returns to seemingly normal

rads should feel hot at top and cool at bottom with cooling as the coolant drops through , if its hot at top and down some sides but cooler in the centre  than the bottom tank its likely got blocked tubes


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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