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Gearbox Counter Shaft Pin Print
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Straight Six
April 1, 2017, 7:53pm Report to Moderator


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I found a small pin on the magnetic drain playground of my Vitesse's gearbox today. Looking at the technical manual it looks a lot like the counter shaft pin.
What function does this pin perform? Can I drive the car (it's been running fine with no undue noises).

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glang
April 2, 2017, 6:46am Report to Moderator

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Looking at the manual its unlikely to be the pin youre talking about as this is installed in the output extension housing side of the main gearbox housing so really cant come out of the sump plug hole. If it was to exit at all it would be via the extension housing if you had removed the speedo drive or coupling and drained oil from there.
Its more likely to be one of the layshaft roller bearing needles of which theres quite a few in the main gearbox casing. Its difficult to see how it could have come out of place in use however during a rebuild they are notoriously easy to dislodge while moving the layshaft.....
Obviously its not ideal running these bearings with the incorrect number of needles but it could even be one of the original needles left in there during a rebuild while the new needles were all correctly installed!
If you could post a good close up picture of the offending item we might be able to positively identify it along with its possible history.
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Pete Lewis
April 2, 2017, 9:39am Report to Moderator

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yes the layshaft spindle pin is outside the running gear , but does fit in an oil drain relief especially in the rearcover or OD adaptor casing , could it escape ...not really

what can and does escape is needles from the input shaft/mainshaft spigot  and this is the main culprit  zone for failures wear and tear .

agree a picture would tell a better tale


Pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Straight Six
April 2, 2017, 5:13pm Report to Moderator


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Thanks for the responses. I'll try and take a photo soon, but I can say that it is definitely a slotted spring pin, not a bearing needle.
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Straight Six
April 2, 2017, 5:42pm Report to Moderator


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Here it is.....


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glang
April 2, 2017, 5:59pm Report to Moderator

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oh yes thats no needle bearing thats called a dowel and I believe not the same as the pin used to fix the layshaft. It looks like they are used to locate the top cover of the gearbox casing and also the remote gearlever housing that goes on top of that. It couldnt have come out of place in service but could have fallen out of either during reassembling of the box and you've been very lucky not to suffer major damage
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mazfg
April 2, 2017, 6:46pm Report to Moderator


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Item: 30




Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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Nick Jones
April 2, 2017, 7:03pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from glang
oh yes thats no needle bearing thats called a dowel and I believe not the same as the pin used to fix the layshaft. It looks like they are used to locate the top cover of the gearbox casing and also the remote gearlever housing that goes on top of that. It couldnt have come out of place in service but could have fallen out of either during reassembling of the box and you've been very lucky not to suffer major damage


Yes, that looks like a pretty strong possibility.  I think the countershaft pin would be longer than that.
Certainly it looks like a complete one not a broken one........ and I don't see how the countershaft pin can have got into the main casing from where it normally lives, especially without getting caught in any gears.

Possibly it has lain there since the last rebuild?  Bloody lucky it's not got picked up in the oil swirl and gone into the gears.

Running without the countershaft pin in place will mean that the shaft rotates in the casing and will slowly wear the casing.  Probably won't show any symptoms until the case is quite worn.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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glang
April 2, 2017, 7:17pm Report to Moderator

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you got me wondering now as I cant remember if the casing dowels are hollow roll pins as in the photo or solid.... The one in the photo looks a bit chunky and short to be item 30 ditto the layshaft one - we need one of the 'encyclopaedia' members on here to settle this
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Straight Six
April 2, 2017, 7:55pm Report to Moderator


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Thanks all. Easy enough to find out if its item 30 on Pete's diagram. I haven't had the cover off this box since the last time I removed the drain plug, if in fact I'm not sure I've ever removed the cover but again an easy one to check.

P.S. Not sure how the predictive text changed magnetic drain plug into magnetic drain playground in the original post, but well done for guessing what I was on about!
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Nick Jones
April 2, 2017, 9:00pm Report to Moderator

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Don't think it's item 30 - that will be thinner.

Pretty sure the box cover to remote dowels are solid.  They are sometimes solid on the box to cover joint too (they were on the Spitfire box I did recently) but perhaps not always.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Jonny-Jimbo
April 3, 2017, 8:24am Report to Moderator

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Trying to think where rollpins are used on the cars... door hinges... gearshift remote to box on an Acclaim...

Certainly an unusual find in a gearbox. Daft question, but it was definately on there when the plug came out and it didn't get picked up off the floor?


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Nick Jones
April 3, 2017, 9:20pm Report to Moderator

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locating dowels for the inlet manifold would be a fair match I think - though how one should end up in the gearbox.......

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Pete Lewis
April 4, 2017, 6:55am Report to Moderator

Tssc Herts and Beds A.O.
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l go for  the tail of the layshaft spindle

short and dumpy  roll pin

pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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glang
April 4, 2017, 12:34pm Report to Moderator

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I think youre right Pete cos if you look at the Rimmers site pic of the pin it looks pretty much identical! Question is if it is missing in the OPs gearbox what effect could it have....
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Pete Lewis
April 5, 2017, 7:09am Report to Moderator

Tssc Herts and Beds A.O.
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Not a lot it,  as already said it stops the spindle rotating in the case,, early  3 sync didnt use it
So theres loads about that never had one fitted

and yours might be  just a surplus   lucky it didnt mince things


pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Straight Six
April 6, 2017, 8:48am Report to Moderator


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Thanks all. Box back in now and operating fine (as before - it came out because of a clutch issue) so fingers crossed and I'll let you know if anything goes bang in the future...
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