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Gearbox rear oil seal Print
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mazfg
March 19, 2017, 1:39pm Report to Moderator


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I've spent the weekend refitting my gearbox...which was a struggle but it's all in and I ran it without the propshaft attached. All is good apart from I've noticed the rear oil seal seem to be leaking a tiny bit . The guy who refurbed forgot to do this and prior to refitting I tried to get the castellated nut off to remove the flange..but no go and with the MOT next Fridqay (and bad whether in the week) it was do or die this weekend.
Now I did think about doing in situ. My only problem is the gearbox tunnel won't allow me to get a socket in..less access as I also have OverDrive. I though I may grind some of it off to allow this.The nut seems to be on pretty tight...is it ok to lock eveythingby putting it in gear and then undoing?  I had no hope before when it was on the bench as It wouldn't lock with my mole grips...
Any advice appreciated.


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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iggy
March 19, 2017, 9:32pm Report to Moderator
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from what ive read you need to make flange bar,  a suitable length of tube or angle iron   with 2 bolts welded on the end to fit the flange once this is fitted it will jam on the concrete under your car when the flange is turned,to get better access can you not undo the rear gearbox mounts and lower the rear end of the gearbox on a trolly jack, to udo the nut you will need an impact wrench or a long half inch drive bar for the socket


1972 Mk2 2.5 PI on carbs
2005 Fiat Stilo jtd                                              
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glang
March 19, 2017, 10:38pm Report to Moderator

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What iggy says is the right way to do it but as a quicker bodge it can be done by putting bolts through two of the flange hole, doing them up tight and then wedging a correct size spanner on one nut against the other. Then spanner can then be locked against the floor of the vehicle to allow the nut to be undone be warned though that the recommended torque does say 90 - 100 lb.ft.....
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mazfg
March 19, 2017, 10:46pm Report to Moderator


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I just got some info about using a screwdriver to lock the gears by selecting 2 at the same time.:
Take the selector mechanism off the top of the gearbox and look in you will see where the selectors slot into the gearbox. Move one in one direction and the other one in the opposite direction so two gears are selected. This will prevent the flange from turning. Once you have finished changing the seal and replaced the flange and tightened up the nut move those parts back before you replace the selector mechanism.


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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glang
March 20, 2017, 8:09am Report to Moderator

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although Im not averse to a bit of bodging I would try to avoid putting the torque of undoing/doing up the nut through the gear train. One thing is that the nut will probably become 'spongy' to torque as you take up the slack so making it difficult to get positive force on it.....
If its already filled dont forget the oil in the gearbox when you take out the seal  
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mazfg
March 20, 2017, 10:04am Report to Moderator


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I think I prefer the steel bar method attached to the flange. Not sure why it needs nuts welding to it. Surely a couple of holes and and then bolted to the flange will work and then jammed on against the floor


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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Jonny-Jimbo
March 20, 2017, 4:00pm Report to Moderator

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Could it work in the same way as undoing the crank front bolt and turning over the engine on the starter to knock it loose? So tool on the flange and another one on the nut?


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
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Pete Lewis
March 20, 2017, 8:31pm Report to Moderator

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There are interlock pins and balls that prevent  selecting two gears at once situated between the 3 shafts

the tunnel should be cut back a good few inches to allow access to overdrive coouplings   has a
simple  screw down  tin plate  made to cover the prop tunnel gap

a pair of bolts thru the coupling and lock it with a pry bar should be easy to hold the coupljng from rotating   its not gorilla tight

pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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mazfg
March 20, 2017, 8:53pm Report to Moderator


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If I remove the OD mount bottom screwas....could I jack it up enough to pass the prop tunnel..thereby giving me access without cutting more metal out?


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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Pete Lewis
March 21, 2017, 1:21pm Report to Moderator

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if sure that will get it close, watch  out for hose stretch etc.

tip if you remove the mount to the base plate   , tack weld the bolts into the mount as spanner access to hold the hex is  more than a challenge, if tacked you can fit the nuts underside .........,one handed

Pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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mazfg
March 21, 2017, 2:20pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Pete Lewis


tip if you remove the mount to the base plate   , tack weld the bolts into the mount as spanner access to hold the hex is  more than a challenge, if tacked you can fit the nuts underside .........,one handed

Pete


I found that out at the weekend..much toing and froing..

Will the output flange come out easily or will I need a hub puller on hand? Or easily tapped out?


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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Pete Lewis
March 22, 2017, 8:39pm Report to Moderator

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Od couplings  normally just pulls off or may be a tap with a mallet
its not a gorilla fit

pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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mazfg
March 28, 2017, 6:02pm Report to Moderator


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Ive made a bar up fitted to the flange. .unfortunately every time I try to undo the nut, the gearbox rises up when the bar is hard against the floor. .ahh. Seems like I need to find away of keeping the gearbox down.  Problem is..it's already raised up to get the socket in for the castellated nut. ...


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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Dogsbody47uk
March 28, 2017, 7:03pm Report to Moderator
1971 13/60 saloon and 1971 vitesse mk 2 saloon
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Quoted from mazfg
Ive made a bar up fitted to the flange. .unfortunately every time I try to undo the nut, the gearbox rises up when the bar is hard against the floor. .ahh. Seems like I need to find away of keeping the gearbox down.  Problem is..it's already raised up to get the socket in for the castellated nut. ...


Can you reposition your bar so that it lodges against the chassis rather than the floor?


First Triumph: 200cc Tiger Cub. Followed by in no particular order, 350 and 500 Royal Enfield Bullet, Herald 1200, Herald 13/60, Mini 1275 GT, Vitesse 2L convertible, Audi 80, Audi 80 Sport, Fiat 124 Sport Coupe, Triumph 2000, Mk 2 Estate, Fiat Tipo, Fiat Stilo, Fiat Uno, Peugeuot Turbo Diesel(yuk), Lancia HPE 2000ie (wow! a dream!) So far 3 Heralds and My fourth Vitesse in the garage. I may have forgotten some... It's my age.. Oh , Honda 400 four.. Terrifying! And the 2 Renault 5s. Oh, and the Ford Granada 3 litre estate..I think that's the lot.
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mazfg
March 28, 2017, 7:52pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Dogsbody47uk


Can you reposition your bar so that it lodges against the chassis rather than the floor?

I think it will still rise up even if against the chassis rail as as soon as it hits anything it'll lever up the gearbox. 😯
Thinkinv if adding some straps to help hold it down...just need to crack the nut...unfortunately I don't have an impact driver.. If I use an endless ratchet strap wrapped around the overdrive housing and chassis rail that will hold it from moving up and hopefully on with a chance of the nut moving. .?
Would one of those electric Makita impact drivers do the trick..I can borrow one ..just a thought..


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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Dogsbody47uk
March 29, 2017, 7:24pm Report to Moderator
1971 13/60 saloon and 1971 vitesse mk 2 saloon
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If you can position your lever against the underside of the chassis right hand main rail, then as you try to undo the nut it will force the gearbox downwards against whatever you are using to prop the gearbox up. ( right hand looking from front to rear ). That should do it. Cheers, Dave.


First Triumph: 200cc Tiger Cub. Followed by in no particular order, 350 and 500 Royal Enfield Bullet, Herald 1200, Herald 13/60, Mini 1275 GT, Vitesse 2L convertible, Audi 80, Audi 80 Sport, Fiat 124 Sport Coupe, Triumph 2000, Mk 2 Estate, Fiat Tipo, Fiat Stilo, Fiat Uno, Peugeuot Turbo Diesel(yuk), Lancia HPE 2000ie (wow! a dream!) So far 3 Heralds and My fourth Vitesse in the garage. I may have forgotten some... It's my age.. Oh , Honda 400 four.. Terrifying! And the 2 Renault 5s. Oh, and the Ford Granada 3 litre estate..I think that's the lot.
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Pete Lewis
March 29, 2017, 7:24pm Report to Moderator

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I have a 1/2"  Mac  19.5 volt 330 lbft  impact gun which shifts just about anything triumph

I have 3 makita drills  but dont know about their impact wrench ,, not to be confused with a impact driver which is normally aimed at screws not 32mm nuts

pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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mazfg
March 29, 2017, 8:10pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Pete Lewis
I have a 1/2"  Mac  19.5 volt 330 lbft  impact gun which shifts just about anything triumph

I have 3 makita drills  but dont know about their impact wrench ,, not to be confused with a impact driver which is normally aimed at screws not 32mm nuts

pete


Mmmm..yep..I mean impact driver. ..I've a hex to 1/2" adapter on it...I'll give it a go anyway. .but mIghtfield not be man enough.  I've just made up a new triangulated bar to use....going to try it all tomorrow morning.



Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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mazfg
March 30, 2017, 2:30pm Report to Moderator


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Well, here's the tool I made. It made very light work of it in the end. Popped the old seal out really easily too. New one went in square and used a piece of pipe to carefully knock it in.  Took it out for a spin..to check...came back and the bloody thing is slightly weeping oil out....  
I'd cleaned up the flange ok..could see where the old seal was sitting on the flange and it looked smooth without nicks in it....not sure what's gone wrong..it's a fairly simple procedure..



Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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RobPearce
March 30, 2017, 3:09pm Report to Moderator

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I had a similar experience with Toby, many years back, when he belonged to my brother. The O/D rear seal was leaking so we replaced it... and it still leaked. Some months later, my brother declared that it no longer leaked but given his mechanical skills I suspect that was because it ran out of oil (the O/D had never worked so the obvious symptom wouldn't apply). When I rebuilt the whole shebang some years later to go in Felix (the other brother's Mk2 Spit) I managed to get a good seal.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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mazfg
March 30, 2017, 3:13pm Report to Moderator


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I'm hoping it may settle down..bed in...   When the oil is hot and thinner that's when it weeps. The seals seem to be a standard universal part 513231.
I did have a simialr thing when I did my crank front seal that sits in the timing chain cover. Went through about 5 and it still leaked..until I bought a full metal jacket type one from Barnwell. been good ever since.
I shall monitor and potentially buy another and try again..bit of a pain but I now know it's only an hour or so job


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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Pete Lewis
March 30, 2017, 3:32pm Report to Moderator

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glad its off...on   off think weve all been there from time to time

i would burnish the coupling with some 1200 grit it may show a wear line,


skf and others make wear sleeves , this is a very tin tap on tube to repair worn journals  and uses same seal .

on production in the 80s we fitted them a std to all our axles so its not a bodge .so repairs could be done in later life.

do check the OD breather and the small hole in the gearbox top cover ( under the selector rod casting are open and working)

Pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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mazfg
March 30, 2017, 4:05pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Pete Lewis


do check the OD breather and the small hole in the gearbox top cover ( under the selector rod casting are open and working)

Pete

I'll have a look, it's that black thing on top of the OD.  

Wish I'd burnished it now before putting it all back...too keen. It looked perfectly smooth, with a mirror like finish. I did wonder though if the new seal lip was in a different place to the old and may sit further out..in which case it was more cruddy further out?


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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nang
March 31, 2017, 5:14am Report to Moderator

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I'd try to find a double lipped seal. Also fit a speedi sleeve as already mentioned.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec) owned since 1998.

1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
2003 BMW 525i Touring.
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mazfg
March 31, 2017, 10:43am Report to Moderator


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I've just taken it out for another spin and it seems to be good now. Any recommendations on where to buy sleeves?


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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Pete Lewis
March 31, 2017, 3:00pm Report to Moderator

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1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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mazfg
April 1, 2017, 6:28pm Report to Moderator


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Triple checked it now...after  a very long drive with covers all off and not a drop or a weep. Happy and covers all back on. Must be needed a bedding in period..😁!


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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