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Paula
January 3, 2017, 6:46pm Report to Moderator

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Hi there.
I Just bought my first lovely Triumph (Vitesse) from Cornwall and set off for home in Streatham South London.
Unfortunately i haven't made it and i'm now in Sherborne in Dorset waiting for recovery with the RAC. The RAC patrol man said its a problem with the points and condensor and unfortunately they no longer carry those parts.
So hopefully by tomorrow i'll be back in South London with my new non starting car.
Does anyone know a mobile mechanic that could come out to Streatham and either fix my ignition or replace it for an electronic one?
Once the RAC drop it off it'll be stranded and i'm not confident enough to do the work myself yet, but i will be watching! (and making tea)
Hope someone can help?
Happy new year.
Paula.
New Member.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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iggy
January 3, 2017, 6:58pm Report to Moderator
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you should be able to buy points condensor from quiller triumph in plumbsted white hart road may be if you call the rac again tomorrow they will fit them,


1972 Mk2 2.5 PI on carbs
2005 Fiat Stilo jtd                                              
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Sienna PI
January 3, 2017, 7:05pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula!
Pm sent to you!
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Paula
January 3, 2017, 7:06pm Report to Moderator

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I've just seen Quiller have moved to Lewes. That's a shame.
Also just found out i haven't got the home recovery and it's costing me £300 to get taken home!
I'm sure i can find some points somewhere. I'm worried that's not the whole problem though.
I think i need a mobile mechanic or one that will come and pick the car up.



Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Hogie
January 3, 2017, 7:08pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula,
                rather than a mobile mechanic have you got any local garages (not the Merc and Audi ones). They can't do a runner, you know where they are,

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Paula
January 3, 2017, 7:21pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Hogie
Hi Paula,
                rather than a mobile mechanic have you got any local garages (not the Merc and Audi ones). They can't do a runner, you know where they are,

Roger


There is a garage down the road, but i'm not sure how to get it to them. I'll pop around there for a chat tomorrow and then maybe get an electronic ignition fitted once i'm mobile again.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Sienna PI
January 3, 2017, 7:27pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula!

Another Pm for you!
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Nick Jones
January 3, 2017, 7:43pm Report to Moderator

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Hmm, you must have passed about 1 mile from me about 15 miles before you ground to a halt........

Are you still there?

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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DaveKent
January 3, 2017, 8:22pm Report to Moderator

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Paula, have a chat with some club members before you splash out on electronic ignition ; there are quite a few different options for varying amounts of money. Be guided by the owners rather than swayed by the garage's preference.


Club Triumph Member since 1985, and proud of it!!!
RBRR Entrant and Finisher! 1986,1988,1990,1992,1994,1996,1998,2000,2002,2004,2006,2008,2010,2012,2014,2016
HCR Entrant and Finisher! 2005,2006,2007,2008,2009
10CR 2009, 2015
1972 Spitfire MKiv� nice !!
1974 Toledo


http://www.dakstechnicaltransport.co.uk
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JohnD
January 3, 2017, 9:28pm Report to Moderator


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Paula,
Welcome!  And so sorry you have had a traumatic entry to Triumph ownership!
I'd trust the RAC man - they still have long and deep enough experience to know about the "Kettering" system, in an age of wholly electronic ignition.
But points only last 3000-6000 miles, less if the condensor goes.

A set of points costs £3.10 plus P&P from Canley's: http://www.canleyclassics.com/triumph-vitesse-distributor-lucas-and-coil  (but make sure which distributor you have, Lucas or Delco)
And order two!   At that price it's worth carrying in the glove box for peace of mind.

But you need to know how to change it.
That's where your local group can help, because any of then could demonstrate how, and get you to practice it, in the meeting pub's car park (given good weather)
Find them in the headline of this page - The Club/Local Groups
But home work first!   This no-nonsense Aussie video show how, not on a Triumph, but all distributors have points, unless they have been converted:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9wZvcr3v2c

And may I recommend - for any electrical problem, a multimeter is an invaluable tool, and need cost less than £10: https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=multimeter

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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RobPearce
January 3, 2017, 9:55pm Report to Moderator

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Paula,
Sorry to hear you've had a bad start to your Triumph adventures, but don't panic. John's advice is good, as is Dave's. With luck you may get some garage recommendations from a local member. If you were in Stretham rather than Streatham I'd offer to pop round and help but London's a bit far


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 3, 2017, 11:10pm Report to Moderator

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Hi!
Sorry for the big gap.
I was getting the car loaded onto the truck and then i was off!
I really will learn how to do my own. I'll order them asap!
More bad news though... As i was turning the steering wheel, something popped out and i now have massive amounts of play in the steering!
I think i would feel better if i got someone to give it a dam good service and check it all over to give me a good starting point.
Maybe Quiller?



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 3, 2017, 11:15pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
Hmm, you must have passed about 1 mile from me about 15 miles before you ground to a halt........

Are you still there?

Nick


Sorry Nick. I should have posted this earlier!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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JohnD
January 3, 2017, 11:25pm Report to Moderator


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Paula,
You sound willing and able to do some maintenance for yourself.
A workshop manual will make doing it, and explaining from you to us and vice versa, easier.
"Something popped out" and lots of play, could be the sliding impact clamp in the steering column.  It was a very early bit of safety in design, to stop the steering column spearing you in a crash.
The solid lower column slides in the the hollow upper part of the column, under the dashboard.
See this diagram from Canley Classics, who you may get to know well:  http://www.canleyclassics.com/triumph-vitesse-steering  Parts 7-10

Turn the steering wheel, while watching the column in the engine bay.    If the play is between the two parts, it's the impact joint that needs to be reset.

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 3, 2017, 11:37pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Paula,
You sound willing and able to do some maintenance for yourself.
A workshop manual will make doing it, and explaining from you to us and vice versa, easier.
"Something popped out" and lots of play, could be the sliding impact clamp in the steering column.  It was a very early bit of safety in design, to stop the steering column spearing you in a crash.
The solid lower column slides in the the hollow upper part of the column, under the dashboard.
See this diagram from Canley Classics, who you may get to know well:  http://www.canleyclassics.com/triumph-vitesse-steering  Parts 7-10

Turn the steering wheel, while watching the column in the engine bay.    If the play is between the two parts, it's the impact joint that needs to be reset.

John


Ok. I'll have a look tomorrow morning when (hopefully) the car arrives on the truck.
I have the Lindsey Porter and Peter Williams book.
I'll get a Haynes too.
I've done some stuff in the past including a head gasket on my old MIni and The Radiator on my Nissan Figaro. I've also done the brake pads and shoes on drum and disk brakes and a CV joint.
Still very much an amature though!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 3, 2017, 11:45pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Paula,
You sound willing and able to do some maintenance for yourself.
A workshop manual will make doing it, and explaining from you to us and vice versa, easier.
"Something popped out" and lots of play, could be the sliding impact clamp in the steering column.  It was a very early bit of safety in design, to stop the steering column spearing you in a crash.
The solid lower column slides in the the hollow upper part of the column, under the dashboard.
See this diagram from Canley Classics, who you may get to know well:  http://www.canleyclassics.com/triumph-vitesse-steering  Parts 7-10

Turn the steering wheel, while watching the column in the engine bay.    If the play is between the two parts, it's the impact joint that needs to be reset.

John


Those parts with the R type clip.
Are they in the engine side of the bulk head?


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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mikeyb
January 4, 2017, 8:16am Report to Moderator

Maldon, Essex :-)
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There have been a few posts on here (and on some other forums) that would imply that an element of caution may be prudent if thinking about dealing with Quiller - do your homework!

You will find plenty of recommendations from satisfied customers of other Triumph Specialists on here.  I for one would suggest Moordale Motors, advert at top of page - Dale is a top man and very active within the Club!


http://triumphandadversity.blogspot.com
http://mikeyb.weebly.com/

CT Drivers Challenge Champ '08 '09
CT Drivers Champ '12

Serial Triumph Offender, max out at 25 years ago!
Current Triumph count 17 16 15 14 13 14 12 13 12 13 14 15

On the road:
67 Mk3 Spit - been too many places to list!
72 Stag - Nachrict Nov '07 & '09, Mar '10, 10CR '09, 11,��LCC '10
76 Sprint - RBRR 2010 finisher, many Road Rallies, Nachrict Mar '11, HCR'11, Little Devils '11
64 Herald Rally Car - 2 autotest, 8 Rally Sprints, 3 Road Rallies, HCR '09, 4 Autosolo, Cadwell Track Day
67 GT6 Mk1

Broken: 72 Mk2 PI with TR6 engine - Nachrict Feb & Nov '06, Nachrict Feb '07, HCR '08, RBRR '08, LCC '07, '08, '09

NY Res�2013

1) Sell a few��moderns
2) Mend my Triumphs
3) Drive them lots
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JohnD
January 4, 2017, 8:24am Report to Moderator


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Paula,
Sorry, the diagram does need interpreting!

The 'R-clip' is a wire (45) to hold the steering rack gaiter (43) onto the rack body.  On the car about three feet from the clamp, but the diagram doesn't make that clear!
The impact clamp is on the driver side of the bulkhead.

This page from Canley's is of the late Spitfire steering column, but that used the same impact clamp, and the diagram is clearer.    
The clamp itself is in the  bottom left hand corner, 122669,  a U-shaped part sits around the tubular upper column, with a flat cross-piece (125782)bolted to it.
The cross piece sits in a slot in the tube.
The lower column rod slides into the tube, and has a flat section.   A 'grub-screw' (125781), a bolt that is driven in with an Allen key (hexagonal tool), onto the flat to do the clamping, and is locked by a lock nut (JN2110).

If the screw has become loose then there will be excess play in the steering, as the upper tube turns until the screw hits the flat.

To adjust, undo the lock nut, tighten the screw, check that the play is removed and tighten the lock nut.   Easy!  Except you do it upside down, head under the dashboard with a torch in your teeth!   It's simple, but very awkward to do!

So do the test I suggested before you try to find the clamp.  There are other possibilities, but best take remote diagnosis step-by-step!
If you can contact your local group and ask their help, someone on the spot could run through them rather quickly.
Regret that I'm 200+ miles away.

John
PS I missed your first reply at the bottom of page 1!   Forgive me - you certainly are "able to do some maintenance yourself"!   My apologies!  J.


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Bitumen Boy
January 4, 2017, 10:27am Report to Moderator
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Plenty of good advice here, but another couple of pointers wouldn't go amiss.

1. The grubscrew on the steering column impact clamp is an imperial rather than metric size - 3/16 AF, iirc. It's about the only one on the whole car barring some on the diff which are the same size anyway, so if you can find anyone selling a single 3/16 AF Allen key (aka hex key) rather than a full set, that's the way to go.

2. When it comes to buying a workshop manual, the older editions of Haynes etc. explain things much better than the more recent ones which have been somewhat "dumbed down". Don't turn your nose up at a battered, oily-finger-marked example on fleabay as it'll probably serve you better than a clean new one.

Have fun!
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Dannyb
January 4, 2017, 11:01am Report to Moderator

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[quote=MikeyB]There have been a few posts on here (and on some other forums) that would imply that an element of caution may be prudent if thinking about dealing with Quiller - do your homework!

Quiller have moved down to the south coast Lewes I believe.


Danny Baker
Langdon Hills, Essex.
RBRR Finisher 2012  2014  2016
My first car in 1970 was a 1965 Spitfire4 with 8 port head stage 2 conversion
Now drive 1980 Spitfire 1500
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Jonny-Jimbo
January 4, 2017, 11:49am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Bitumen Boy
1. The grubscrew on the steering column impact clamp is an imperial rather than metric size - 3/16 AF, iirc. It's about the only one on the whole car barring some on the diff which are the same size anyway, so if you can find anyone selling a single 3/16 AF Allen key (aka hex key) rather than a full set, that's the way to go.


Paula, if it is the impact clamp do NOT touch the grub screw and locking nut - this is what provides the pre-load on the column IIRC, adjusting this should be avoided unless you know the settings! The clamp often comes loose because when people fit it they do not seat it correctly on the flat sections of both the inner and outer columns. Indeed, a few years ago someone took a reasonably nicely restored Vitesse to KD Triumph where I was working at the time, complaining the steering occasionally felt vague (He'd restored the car himself). I dived straight into the footwell and sure enough the clamp was tightened up 'on the piss'. I removed it with the two 1/4"UNF bolts (7/16" head) and reseated the clamp on the flats correctly. No more vague steering.





62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 1:30pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Paula,
Sorry, the diagram does need interpreting!

The 'R-clip' is a wire (45) to hold the steering rack gaiter (43) onto the rack body.  On the car about three feet from the clamp, but the diagram doesn't make that clear!
The impact clamp is on the driver side of the bulkhead.

This page from Canley's is of the late Spitfire steering column, but that used the same impact clamp, and the diagram is clearer.    
The clamp itself is in the  bottom left hand corner, 122669,  a U-shaped part sits around the tubular upper column, with a flat cross-piece (125782)bolted to it.
The cross piece sits in a slot in the tube.
The lower column rod slides into the tube, and has a flat section.   A 'grub-screw' (125781), a bolt that is driven in with an Allen key (hexagonal tool), onto the flat to do the clamping, and is locked by a lock nut (JN2110).

If the screw has become loose then there will be excess play in the steering, as the upper tube turns until the screw hits the flat.

To adjust, undo the lock nut, tighten the screw, check that the play is removed and tighten the lock nut.   Easy!  Except you do it upside down, head under the dashboard with a torch in your teeth!   It's simple, but very awkward to do!

So do the test I suggested before you try to find the clamp.  There are other possibilities, but best take remote diagnosis step-by-step!
If you can contact your local group and ask their help, someone on the spot could run through them rather quickly.
Regret that I'm 200+ miles away.

John
PS I missed your first reply at the bottom of page 1!   Forgive me - you certainly are "able to do some maintenance yourself"!   My apologies!  J.


That's great!
It's definitely that clamp. I'm going out there now to have a go.
I think i understand that it's a clamp that clamps around the end of a hollow shaft with a grub screw on it that is tightened down onto a flat part of an inner shaft.
I'll leave the grub screw as it is and try and reset the clamp into the correct position.
I've also ordered all new ignition bits including points condensor cap and rotor arm. That'll be tomorrow's fun!
What's the gap for the points? 0.015?
Cheers!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 2:13pm Report to Moderator

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I tightened the 2 clamp bolts and everything is much better! I was tempted to tighten the grub screw, but i'll leave it for now. The clamp is very close to a part of the body and knocks against it occasionally though.
I'll see what it's like on the road hopefully tomorrow.
I was hoping for some driving around before i ended up this involved.
The joys of classic motoring i suppose!
Cheers for the amazing help, i'm sure you'll be hearing from me again and i'll try and make the next local meeting
Paula


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mikeyb
January 4, 2017, 2:27pm Report to Moderator

Maldon, Essex :-)
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points 14-16 thou, plugs 25 thou


http://triumphandadversity.blogspot.com
http://mikeyb.weebly.com/

CT Drivers Challenge Champ '08 '09
CT Drivers Champ '12

Serial Triumph Offender, max out at 25 years ago!
Current Triumph count 17 16 15 14 13 14 12 13 12 13 14 15

On the road:
67 Mk3 Spit - been too many places to list!
72 Stag - Nachrict Nov '07 & '09, Mar '10, 10CR '09, 11,��LCC '10
76 Sprint - RBRR 2010 finisher, many Road Rallies, Nachrict Mar '11, HCR'11, Little Devils '11
64 Herald Rally Car - 2 autotest, 8 Rally Sprints, 3 Road Rallies, HCR '09, 4 Autosolo, Cadwell Track Day
67 GT6 Mk1

Broken: 72 Mk2 PI with TR6 engine - Nachrict Feb & Nov '06, Nachrict Feb '07, HCR '08, RBRR '08, LCC '07, '08, '09

NY Res�2013

1) Sell a few��moderns
2) Mend my Triumphs
3) Drive them lots
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Steve P
January 4, 2017, 4:23pm Report to Moderator
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I work in the West End every day so if your stuck i would be happy to jump on the tube and take a look sometime,ive owned my Vitesse since 1985.
Steve


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 5:16pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Steve P
I work in the West End every day so if your stuck i would be happy to jump on the tube and take a look sometime,ive owned my Vitesse since 1985.
Steve


Amazing.
Thanks


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Paula
January 4, 2017, 5:16pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from mikeyb
points 14-16 thou, plugs 25 thou


Perfect. Ta!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 5:20pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jonny-Jimbo


Paula, if it is the impact clamp do NOT touch the grub screw and locking nut - this is what provides the pre-load on the column IIRC, adjusting this should be avoided unless you know the settings! The clamp often comes loose because when people fit it they do not seat it correctly on the flat sections of both the inner and outer columns. Indeed, a few years ago someone took a reasonably nicely restored Vitesse to KD Triumph where I was working at the time, complaining the steering occasionally felt vague (He'd restored the car himself). I dived straight into the footwell and sure enough the clamp was tightened up 'on the piss'. I removed it with the two 1/4"UNF bolts (7/16" head) and reseated the clamp on the flats correctly. No more vague steering.





Thanks!
I think i got it square.
I actually think it was all upside down! as the steering wheel is now the wrong way up???



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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JohnD
January 4, 2017, 5:34pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Jonny-Jimbo


Paula, if it is the impact clamp do NOT touch the grub screw and locking nut - this is what provides the pre-load on the column IIRC, adjusting this should be avoided unless you know the settings! The clamp often comes loose because when people fit it they do not seat it correctly on the flat sections of both the inner and outer columns. Indeed, a few years ago someone took a reasonably nicely restored Vitesse to KD Triumph where I was working at the time, complaining the steering occasionally felt vague (He'd restored the car himself). I dived straight into the footwell and sure enough the clamp was tightened up 'on the piss'. I removed it with the two 1/4"UNF bolts (7/16" head) and reseated the clamp on the flats correctly. No more vague steering.





JJ,
what's special about the impact clamp's grub screw, that it should NOT be touched?

The OE Workshop Manual describes the procedure as follows:
Retighten the bolts on the impact clamp.
Using a socket key [aka Allen key JD] tighten the screw ... by hand as much as possible without bending the the wrench [aka key]
Tighten the lock nut.

Done in that order - Simples!!

And the wheel - ditto!  
Just undo that enormous nut, but leave it on the thread.
While pulling the wheel upwards, HIT the top of the column, with a soft hammer, or a hard one with a pieceof wood in the way.
With luck, the wheel will spring off its splines, you can turn it around and replace it.

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Sheepy
January 4, 2017, 5:49pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Bitumen Boy
, oily-finger-marked example on fleabay as it'll probably serve you better than a clean new one.

Have fun!


Couldn't agree more, the older ones are the best.

If you can do a head gasket then you are a lot further advanced than most amateurs!
Find a local club and get chatting to some of the members with the same car (helps if they know that model well) or others that are good with spanners (as most triumph owners should be 😉) then ask for advice, or even ask if they would be willing to teach you (payment of tea and biscuits, or beer
It's the best way to learn, then you will have the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

I would offer but I'm a little far away! 😀

Give the car a good check over now noting anything that needs replacing or is likely to need replacing soon, get along to the spares day in Feb if you have the time (19th) and pick up some bits, plus then you get to meet some orrible lot like us! But it's a fun day out.

Cheers
Shaun


Cheers
Shaun

i'm worried that when I die my wife will sell all my car parts for what I told her they were worth!  

67 MK3 spit
42 Chevy cargo truck
Some bikes (not push bikes)
Land Rover series 3 (doing it up to sell)
Belgium (I'm Binglish)
RBRR 2014 'team broom' in the renown!
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 5:58pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Sheepy


Couldn't agree more, the older ones are the best.

If you can do a head gasket then you are a lot further advanced than most amateurs!
Find a local club and get chatting to some of the members with the same car (helps if they know that model well) or others that are good with spanners (as most triumph owners should be 😉) then ask for advice, or even ask if they would be willing to teach you (payment of tea and biscuits, or beer
It's the best way to learn, then you will have the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

I would offer but I'm a little far away! 😀

Give the car a good check over now noting anything that needs replacing or is likely to need replacing soon, get along to the spares day in Feb if you have the time (19th) and pick up some bits, plus then you get to meet some orrible lot like us! But it's a fun day out.

Cheers
Shaun


I'll stick it in the diary!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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citroentim
January 4, 2017, 6:49pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula
I am only 15 miles from you and happy to pop over and help with either fitting new points and condenser or electronic ignition if you don't have any luck with someone closer..


Beige Acclaim CD Triomatic with factory aircon. On the road
Beige Acclaim HLS manual.  RBRR 2016 car. Off road needing a rear radius arm.
Suzuki SC100 coupe, owned since 1992.
'Resting' Suzuki SC100 coupe awaiting full strip, repaint and no doubt rust repairs.
2004 Citroen C5 2.0 litre diesel estate
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 6:52pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from citroentim
Hi Paula
I am only 15 miles from you and happy to pop over and help with either fitting new points and condenser or electronic ignition if you don't have any luck with someone closer..


Thanks!
I'll give it a go and see what happens. Parts should be here tomorrow.


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Nick Jones
January 4, 2017, 7:41pm Report to Moderator

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Well done for having a go.  These cars are truly excellent for learning on, being really pretty simple.  I find it fairly horrifying that an RAC/AA person wasn't able to fettle a set of points at the roadside.

The lesson is to carry a few basic spares.  Points, condenser, rotor arm, set of plugs (the old but working ones removed from your last service are better than nothing) plus fan belt (make sure it is the right length by fitting the new one and keeping the one that comes off as the spare), top and bottom main hoses plus a length of generic 1/2" heater hose makes a good start.  Even if you can't fit them yourself it gives the RAC/AA man something to do.

Cheers

Nick

PS. When you have it running again and are confident you've fixed the steering issue, I still suggest taking the car to somewhere like Moordale Motors for a good, specialist look over just to make sure there's nothing too alarming lurking on the safety front.  That steering issue does suggest it's been fiddled with by someone not entirely sure what they were doing and you were quite fortunate to discover it the way you did!


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 7:53pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
Well done for having a go.  These cars are truly excellent for learning on, being really pretty simple.  I find it fairly horrifying that an RAC/AA person wasn't able to fettle a set of points at the roadside.

The lesson is to carry a few basic spares.  Points, condenser, rotor arm, set of plugs (the old but working ones removed from your last service are better than nothing) plus fan belt (make sure it is the right length by fitting the new one and keeping the one that comes off as the spare), top and bottom main hoses plus a length of generic 1/2" heater hose makes a good start.  Even if you can't fit them yourself it gives the RAC/AA man something to do.

Cheers

Nick

PS. When you have it running again and are confident you've fixed the steering issue, I still suggest taking the car to somewhere like Moordale Motors for a good, specialist look over just to make sure there's nothing too alarming lurking on the safety front.  That steering issue does suggest it's been fiddled with by someone not entirely sure what they were doing and you were quite fortunate to discover it the way you did!


I'll start building up on spares.
I used to carry so many around on my old vespa i once called out the RAC and just asked to borrow some tools as i'd left them at home. Poor guy had no idea how to do a clutch cable on a 1960 VBA 150!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 8:00pm Report to Moderator

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I'm planning to take it to Quillers for a once over once i'm on the road


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DaveKent
January 4, 2017, 8:09pm Report to Moderator

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Dale at Moordale is your man!


Club Triumph Member since 1985, and proud of it!!!
RBRR Entrant and Finisher! 1986,1988,1990,1992,1994,1996,1998,2000,2002,2004,2006,2008,2010,2012,2014,2016
HCR Entrant and Finisher! 2005,2006,2007,2008,2009
10CR 2009, 2015
1972 Spitfire MKiv� nice !!
1974 Toledo


http://www.dakstechnicaltransport.co.uk
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 8:11pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from DaveKent
Dale at Moordale is your man!


Oh ok.
I'll give him a call. Quillers not so hot?


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Alex
January 4, 2017, 8:43pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


Oh ok.
I'll give him a call. Quillers not so hot?



There have been many less than favourable reviews about quillers......I'm sure they can't be all bad but the general opinion would be the one I'd favour......

Was that diplomatic?


Triumph spitfire 1500 white.....rbr04,06,2012,2014 and 2016


RBRR 2004,2006,2008,2010, 2012,2014 and 2016

Triumph spitfire 1500 Blue for sale.

Triumph Herald 1200 CV project.

Andover,Hants
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DaveKent
January 4, 2017, 8:47pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


Oh ok.
I'll give him a call. Quillers not so hot?


To be fair, I have never used Quiller: however I do know first hand that Moordale Dale knows his Triumphs inside out!


Club Triumph Member since 1985, and proud of it!!!
RBRR Entrant and Finisher! 1986,1988,1990,1992,1994,1996,1998,2000,2002,2004,2006,2008,2010,2012,2014,2016
HCR Entrant and Finisher! 2005,2006,2007,2008,2009
10CR 2009, 2015
1972 Spitfire MKiv� nice !!
1974 Toledo


http://www.dakstechnicaltransport.co.uk
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Paula
January 4, 2017, 9:13pm Report to Moderator

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Message received and understood!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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timbancroft61
January 4, 2017, 9:48pm Report to Moderator

Still around!
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Blimey, Chandler is learning.....never too old eh!


Club Triumph Round Britain Reliability Run (Part of the organising team, what a team)!
RBRR is the best car event in the UK, not probably, it is!

1970 GT6 Mk.2: Royal Blue 6 RBRRs (98, 00,02,04,06 & 10), 2 10CRs (03 & 07). 2 HCRs 1 LCC, lots of Autosolos and numerous track days. Bought in 1983, crikey where did the time go! Now running the Roy Lacey cooling system!

1969 2.5Pi Mk.1: Slate Grey 3 10CRs (05,09 & 15), 3 RBRRs (08, 12 & 16), 3 HCRs, 2 LCCs. A few alloy panels, does need the pi kit fitting. Bought April '04. Needs paint! Just fitted some new 7J Minilites-not copies!

1967 Spitfire mk2: Wedgewood Blue. Bought November 2010. Almost seems civilised. Car has done a RBRR (Dave Picton 2010). Blimey, could be on the road soon!
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Alex
January 4, 2017, 10:03pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from timbancroft61
Blimey, Chandler is learning.....never too old eh!




Triumph spitfire 1500 white.....rbr04,06,2012,2014 and 2016


RBRR 2004,2006,2008,2010, 2012,2014 and 2016

Triumph spitfire 1500 Blue for sale.

Triumph Herald 1200 CV project.

Andover,Hants
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TedTaylor
January 5, 2017, 12:56am Report to Moderator

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You have a number of local Club groups in South London like South London and West Kent.  Use the 'More Local Groups' option at the bottom of the 'Next Group Meetings' on the right of the page which gives map locations.

MUT


Mad Uncle Ted!
Growing old is inevitable but growing up is optional.

AFH849B Mk1 2000 period rally replica (under restoration ..... again) First re-built 1991
NAM616G Morris 1800 London Sydney/Monte/World Cup (awaiting restoration)
SCG115G Mk1 PI estate
WDE 76K Mk2 2500 estate (Woodie) RBRR 2014   2016  
LSE Soft Dash Range Rover with Brooklands body kit on LPG (Still for sale)

From the depths of the Forest of Dean....
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RobPearce
January 5, 2017, 8:48am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
I find it fairly horrifying that an RAC/AA person wasn't able to fettle a set of points at the roadside.

These days I'm not surprised. Some twenty years ago I broke down in a Dolomite 1850 and the RAC/AA/etc person who attended managed only to completely a£$e up the distributor before being forced to give up and call a recovery truck.

Quoted from Nick Jones
PS. When you have it running again and are confident you've fixed the steering issue, I still suggest taking the car to somewhere like Moordale Motors for a good, specialist look over

As others have said, Dale at Moordale is the man! Not being local, I don't use them myself, but it was he who fixed my very unhappy Toledo in a car park in Scotland on the 2008 RBRR.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Jonny-Jimbo
January 5, 2017, 8:49am Report to Moderator

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I think Mr Alex was 'diplomatic' on the RBRR too - must be mellowing in his old age.

JohnD - my point on the clamp was that to fit it correctly it is clamped and located by the two 1/4UNF bolts, NOT by the grub screw as that sets the preload. So the information given of fiddling with the locknut wouldn't have helped Paula in her situation.

Paula, glad you're getting it sorted, and as has been said by others, the work you have said you've done on your previous car is beyond the average beginner, so at the least you must be an advanced amateur  . As has been said Dale's a good guy and active in the club too - I'm up in the Triumph Homeland, so I have not used his services myself, but generally with garages etc you can take the majority vote as a good sign.


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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JohnD
January 5, 2017, 9:29am Report to Moderator


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JJ,
Disagree - read my post 28, where I copied the instruction from the original manual on how to secure the steering column impact clamp.

The tightness of the grub screw is determined by tightening that, NOT the two bolts that secure the clamp on the column.
And the original instructions specifically say, that the grub screw should be hand tight, without bending the Allen key (I paraphrase).

This is exactly NOT what you suggest.
When two "experts"  (has beens, under pressure) are so diametrically opposed, perhaps the Court of CT should decide!
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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RobPearce
January 5, 2017, 10:07am Report to Moderator

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John/Jon,
I think probably you are talking at cross purposes. JD's point is that setting the grub screw is not hard and should be done if it's suspect. JJ's point is that it's rare for that to be the cause of the problem and much more common for people to simply fit the whole shebang wrong, in which case the other two bolts are the ones you need to deal with. Indeed, I think JJ is emphasising that, given the requirement to set the grub screw correctly, where the other two nuts are simply "done up tight", it is only sensible to release the easy ones, check it's all fitted right and re-tighten, then test, before contemplating the slightly more complex bit. And, while I haven't re-checked the workshop manual for a long time, I do recall it containing a statement that the grub screw should not be disturbed (when removing the clamp or adjusting the reach) for precisely the reason JJ gives.
I gather from the thread that Paula has done as JJ suggested and found that he was right and this was, indeed, the problem. Had there still been a problem now, JD's advice would be the correct next step (and I think JJ would agree here).

(now we need eleven more "court of CT" jury members to chime in )


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Hogie
January 5, 2017, 10:10am Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula,
             if you think getting to Moordale's (North London) may be too demanding there is Enginuity in Acton and Rees Brothers in Aldershot.
They are both well into TRiumphs.

But don;t forget to investigate a sympathetic garage near to you.

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Jonny-Jimbo
January 5, 2017, 10:42am Report to Moderator

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Thanks Rob - as usual other people can say what I'm trying to far better than I can. I have never been the most eloquent or the most proficient at writing. I know what I mean but struggle to convey it. To me Rob has covered what I was trying to say. You may disagree.

Paula, as Hogie has said, there is Enginuity; I went to view a car they were selling a few years back and they seemed like a reasonable bunch of guys. My other halfs family are in Ealing and another buddy is down by Kempton Park; I'll keep an eye out for your Vitesse when I'm down there!


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Paula
January 5, 2017, 1:14pm Report to Moderator

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Update!
I've changed: Plugs, Point, Condenser, Rotor, Distro Cap, Plugs, Leads and coil.
It started straight away and was running lovely. I sat in it idling with the heater running and after 10 mins it started running lumpy and died.
I tried to restart it, but the battery was flat.
I've pulled a plug out and it's very black.
I'm now charging the battery up so i can try again.
Any ideas?
I was so pleased for 10 mins!!
Thanks.
Paula



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Nick Jones
January 5, 2017, 1:45pm Report to Moderator

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Did you put the choke in?  Is the choke fully disengaging?

Always worth re-checking points gap also as they do sometimes close up quite quick when new.  Flat battery and no charging at idle might not have been helping either.  Can be an issue with dynamos as they tend not to produce much, if any juice at idle speeds.  If you see lots of sitting in traffic with lights/wipers/blower on in your future an alternator conversion might be a good investment?

I also notice you have a Delco distributor (Vitesse 1600 presumably) and when trying to make one good one of these from the tatty remains of two last weekend for my sons Spitfire I noticed that one had a very scored and rough surface to the cams which would tend to cause accelerated wear to the heel of the points - might be worth a quick check.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Paula
January 5, 2017, 2:00pm Report to Moderator

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Just tried again with the battery now charged enough. Not firing at all. Just like before. The points gap if fine.
Funny how it seems to run great after it's been left alone for a while and then just goes lumpy and stops after 10 mins. Could it be the plugs oiling up? They are black but not that wet. But hey went black from new in 10 mins. Isn't that odd? The choke seems to work fine.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 5, 2017, 2:17pm Report to Moderator

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Well... ten minutes from cold with choke might cause a fair bit of soot build-up, though I'd expect it to be thin and easily wiped off.
How well charged is the battery? Tessa will happily crank over with no sign of any ignition for a fair while if the battery is only part-charged. Put in back on charge for a couple of hours and she'll burst into life on the first turn of the key.
What plugs have you got? Some people have said that modern NGK plugs, in particular, 'fail' very quickly if the engine is running rich. I'd be surprised if they went that quickly, though.
Also, there are a lot of dodgy rotor arms out there. It may be worth swapping the old one back in for a test. Likewise the cap & leads, if the arm doesn't help.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 5, 2017, 2:20pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce
Well... ten minutes from cold with choke might cause a fair bit of soot build-up, though I'd expect it to be thin and easily wiped off.
How well charged is the battery? Tessa will happily crank over with no sign of any ignition for a fair while if the battery is only part-charged. Put in back on charge for a couple of hours and she'll burst into life on the first turn of the key.
What plugs have you got? Some people have said that modern NGK plugs, in particular, 'fail' very quickly if the engine is running rich. I'd be surprised if they went that quickly, though.
Also, there are a lot of dodgy rotor arms out there. It may be worth swapping the old one back in for a test. Likewise the cap & leads, if the arm doesn't help.


Ok. I'll get the battery back on charge. There is a garage down the road (down hill too!) i might just get it going and get it to them.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 5, 2017, 2:23pm Report to Moderator

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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 5, 2017, 2:32pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce
Well... ten minutes from cold with choke might cause a fair bit of soot build-up, though I'd expect it to be thin and easily wiped off.
How well charged is the battery? Tessa will happily crank over with no sign of any ignition for a fair while if the battery is only part-charged. Put in back on charge for a couple of hours and she'll burst into life on the first turn of the key.
What plugs have you got? Some people have said that modern NGK plugs, in particular, 'fail' very quickly if the engine is running rich. I'd be surprised if they went that quickly, though.
Also, there are a lot of dodgy rotor arms out there. It may be worth swapping the old one back in for a test. Likewise the cap & leads, if the arm doesn't help.


Your comment about having a fully charged battery has made me think. When i picked the car up they were charging the battery. Maybe that is the fault. Maybe it'll only go with a 100% charged battery?
I'll charge it for another hour and try again, then i have to go out.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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glang
January 5, 2017, 3:12pm Report to Moderator

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It does sound very much like too much choke which you could check by taking the air filter box off the carbs - they look like strombergs to me so you should see a bar at the bottom of each intake that rotates as the choke is operated. When the choke is off the bars should have their flat sides on top so that they are flush with the intake bore....
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Paula
January 5, 2017, 3:25pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from glang
It does sound very much like too much choke which you could check by taking the air filter box off the carbs - they look like strombergs to me so you should see a bar at the bottom of each intake that rotates as the choke is operated. When the choke is off the bars should have their flat sides on top so that they are flush with the intake bore....


Here's 2 pictures. First one is choke off and second is on



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 5, 2017, 3:46pm Report to Moderator

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Just tried again and it ran very badly for 30 seconds and died again.
I'll have to stop for today and try again tomorrow


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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daver clasper
January 5, 2017, 6:04pm Report to Moderator
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Hi

The second photo looks different, as though the choke bar may be lifting the piston and needle for more fuel (as it would if choke is pulled out), though it's proberely the angle of photo.

If not on choke then then the bar is not in contact with the piston and piston should be resting on the bridge/body of carb (also the bars should move together, so check the clamp connecting them is not loose)  .

If running rich and mixture screw/jet is set right (though hard to determine if over fueling for another reason) then other main reasons for over fueling are sticking needle valve. punctured float, or floats set too high (though last one unlikely if was running well before).

You maybe know this stuff, though, thought I would mention it.

Cars that have not been used much or neglected a bit with maintenance can need a bit of de- bugging.
  

Good luck with it.

Dave
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glang
January 5, 2017, 6:18pm Report to Moderator

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well the choke looks like its working perfectly in your pics, did the other carb behave the same? While you've got the airfilter housing off you could try lifting each of the pistons that you can see and let them drop back down - there should be resistance to lifting due to the damping oil in the top of the carbs then they should drop back down smoothly and positively.
I do wonder about your battery/dynamo cos normally if theres enough ummmmph to start, the engine will run ok with the dynamo supplying the system. The battery certainly shouldnt go flat after a failed start or two and of course once started the ignition light should go out.....  
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daver clasper
January 5, 2017, 6:29pm Report to Moderator
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Sorry. just re read. At first, thought pics were of both carbs with choke off
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Dogsbody47uk
January 5, 2017, 8:47pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from JohnD
JJ,
Disagree - read my post 28, where I copied the instruction from the original manual on how to secure the steering column impact clamp.

The tightness of the grub screw is determined by tightening that, NOT the two bolts that secure the clamp on the column.
And the original instructions specifically say, that the grub screw should be hand tight, without bending the Allen key (I paraphrase).

This is exactly NOT what you suggest.
When two "experts"  (has beens, under pressure) are so diametrically opposed, perhaps the Court of CT should decide!
John

Ok. Its a bit off thread. Loosen the grub screw. Locate the shaft flat bit, tighten the 2 nuts/ bolts to correctly align the shafts. Tighten the grub screw to lock the sliding shafts. Tighten the grub screw lock nut. Simple!


First Triumph: 200cc Tiger Cub. Followed by in no particular order, 350 and 500 Royal Enfield Bullet, Herald 1200, Herald 13/60, Mini 1275 GT, Vitesse 2L convertible, Audi 80, Audi 80 Sport, Fiat 124 Sport Coupe, Triumph 2000, Mk 2 Estate, Fiat Tipo, Fiat Stilo, Fiat Uno, Peugeuot Turbo Diesel(yuk), Lancia HPE 2000ie (wow! a dream!) So far 3 Heralds and My fourth Vitesse in the garage. I may have forgotten some... It's my age.. Oh , Honda 400 four.. Terrifying! And the 2 Renault 5s. Oh, and the Ford Granada 3 litre estate..I think that's the lot.
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Saltddirk
January 6, 2017, 6:42am Report to Moderator

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Cant see from the pick which carb that is, nor do i know a lot about Vitesses,
but when you pushed the choke in, did the needle resit correctly? Feel underneath the carb if there is a piece of red plastic just push it upwards, it might just spring up seating the needles correctly. This happened fairly often on my spit with SU's, other versions might have different set up,  Sorry that I  am not very confident (or convincing if you want)  in explaining what to look for without having the thing in front of me....
Joys of classic motoring!
D


round the bend might be the best place to be.
slightly mad but mostly harmless
RBRR 14 16 
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 1:20pm Report to Moderator

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I'm a little scared of carbs, to many little bits! Something i have to get over.
I'll go and have another look with your comments in mind.
I have noticed a bit of a leak on the right hand carb.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Nick Jones
January 6, 2017, 3:02pm Report to Moderator

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Another possibility is that the needle valves inside the carbs are leaking a bit so the float chamber level increases.  This will make the car run rich even if the choke is off.  This shows up much more at idle as the engine takes least fuel so the rate of leakage exceeds rate of use.

If it's a small leak then it'll just make the car run rich at idle after a few minutes, if bigger them it will go on to flood out of the overflow drilling on the front face of the carb and into the airfilter.

This is a fairly common Stromberg CD foible and can be due to just tired needle valves, dirt or excessive fuel pressure from a dodgy modern replacement pump.

The Strombergs are the very early ones (as would be expected on a 1600) with a rather primitive choke arrangement - but they are also the simplest.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 3:17pm Report to Moderator

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I think that's it!
The right carb is wet on the bottom.
I've driven it to the garage down the road after looking at it for a long time with a screwdriver in my hand.
I bottled it.. I used to clean the jet on my vespa on the side of the road regularly.
Oh the shame.
Please don't drum me out of the club!
Thanks again for all the help!
Haynes manual bought on ebay!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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TedTaylor
January 6, 2017, 3:57pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
Please don't drum me out of the club!
Thanks again for all the help!
Haynes manual bought on ebay!


Actually I think most of us following this thread admire you for being prepared to give sorting your problems a go!

MUT


Mad Uncle Ted!
Growing old is inevitable but growing up is optional.

AFH849B Mk1 2000 period rally replica (under restoration ..... again) First re-built 1991
NAM616G Morris 1800 London Sydney/Monte/World Cup (awaiting restoration)
SCG115G Mk1 PI estate
WDE 76K Mk2 2500 estate (Woodie) RBRR 2014   2016  
LSE Soft Dash Range Rover with Brooklands body kit on LPG (Still for sale)

From the depths of the Forest of Dean....
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 4:24pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TedTaylor


Actually I think most of us following this thread admire you for being prepared to give sorting your problems a go!

MUT


Thanks!
The feeling i got when it fired straight away after fitting the new ignition was pretty sweet.
Still a few jobs to do, but we have bonded.
No regrets. (yet)


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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glang
January 6, 2017, 4:40pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


Thanks!
The feeling i got when it fired straight away after fitting the new ignition was pretty sweet.
Still a few jobs to do, but we have bonded.
No regrets. (yet)


Watch out for that! Ive had my Vitesse 30years and talk to it now
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 4:46pm Report to Moderator

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Oh oh


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Dogsbody47uk
January 6, 2017, 5:15pm Report to Moderator
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I always talk to my Triumphs... especially when they've drawn blood...ungrateful little Bs!


First Triumph: 200cc Tiger Cub. Followed by in no particular order, 350 and 500 Royal Enfield Bullet, Herald 1200, Herald 13/60, Mini 1275 GT, Vitesse 2L convertible, Audi 80, Audi 80 Sport, Fiat 124 Sport Coupe, Triumph 2000, Mk 2 Estate, Fiat Tipo, Fiat Stilo, Fiat Uno, Peugeuot Turbo Diesel(yuk), Lancia HPE 2000ie (wow! a dream!) So far 3 Heralds and My fourth Vitesse in the garage. I may have forgotten some... It's my age.. Oh , Honda 400 four.. Terrifying! And the 2 Renault 5s. Oh, and the Ford Granada 3 litre estate..I think that's the lot.
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RobPearce
January 6, 2017, 5:26pm Report to Moderator

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I talk to mine, too.

Tessa also had problems with the float valve on the front (right hand) carb after I fitted a new fuel pump. It is a common problem, leading to really poor running just like you've found. Tessa's wasn't bad enough to stop her completely but possibly only because the affected carb was set rather on the lean side.

It's great that you've (hopefully) identified the problem and can get the garage to fix it.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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daver clasper
January 6, 2017, 6:28pm Report to Moderator
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Hi

From my experience, if it's wet at the bottom only (just the jet holder) then larger O ring between jet holder and float bowl failed, or small O ring between jet and jet holder. I think this is just leakage rather than flooding.

Float bowl gasket leakage will show fuel from below the float bowl gasket and would not be cause it's flooded.

Needle valves sticking or not seating has shown fuel sitting on the bridge (where the piston sits), though more extreme flooding it will come through the upper hole (breather/overflow?)on the right hand on front face of carb.

Had some experience with flooding on my vitesse, though not an expert mechanic at all. Aside from the springs etc around the spindles which are a bit more fiddly (take photos, refer to diagrams) which you don't have to tamper with to sort flooding and most things, earlier Strombergs are very simple with very few parts.

Good info on the web about them.

Hopefully not overloaded you with info.

Cheers, Dave



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efp
January 6, 2017, 8:25pm Report to Moderator

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Paula

A propos of a much earlier post of yours, that looks like an original bakelite steering wheel.

I'm not a Vitesse man, maybe Vits are different but I know that for early Spits those are quite hard to come by, for those seeking originality.  Theres one being hawked on the Bay of Evil for £300 I believe. Seems the first mods every new owner did in the past were changing the wheel to a smaller sporty one, alloy rocker cover and a pair of K&N's. Must have added at least 0.005bhp.. and the originals went in the skip.

Please dont think of changing it.

J


1967 Spitfire MkII, nearing end of restoration
1965 Land Rover S2A, awaiting MOT
2002 BMW 535i,  daily driver, 114k on the clock
2004 Mercedes CLK 200K, alternate daily driver, 143k on clock
1976 International 464 tractor....
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Sheepy
January 6, 2017, 8:27pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
I'm a little scared of carbs, to many little bits!


No, not at all! 😉



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Cheers
Shaun

i'm worried that when I die my wife will sell all my car parts for what I told her they were worth!  

67 MK3 spit
42 Chevy cargo truck
Some bikes (not push bikes)
Land Rover series 3 (doing it up to sell)
Belgium (I'm Binglish)
RBRR 2014 'team broom' in the renown!
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RedRooster
January 6, 2017, 8:38pm Report to Moderator


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Your going to loose the lot & be in a heap of woe when they slide off that table & go bouncing around the garage

ps
don't know who your mason is but his pointing is rubbish.


GT6 Mk3, the Rooster    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8W1XSjFB6g  tune on the radio the first time it broke down, 5 miles after i bought it
http://www.triumph-club-de-fra.....estauration-dune-gt6  
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Sheepy
January 6, 2017, 9:50pm Report to Moderator

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Ha ha I knew someone would notice the bricks! It's an old barn on the side of the house, think they just threw it together.  

That carb is back together and running sweetly now, all new jets and screws fitted, but re used one of the original gaskets and the accelerator pump because the new rebuild kits are c**p, the original 70 year old parts were in better condition and fitted better than the "new" parts.

But anyway, Paula, give it a go. As long as you lay it out all neatly and take pictures, plus have a workshop manual to go by then you should be more than capable of rebuilding one going on what you told us you have already achieved.


Cheers
Shaun

i'm worried that when I die my wife will sell all my car parts for what I told her they were worth!  

67 MK3 spit
42 Chevy cargo truck
Some bikes (not push bikes)
Land Rover series 3 (doing it up to sell)
Belgium (I'm Binglish)
RBRR 2014 'team broom' in the renown!
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 9:53pm Report to Moderator

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A Dellorto carb on a vespa is A LOT simpler!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 9:56pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from efp
Paula

A propos of a much earlier post of yours, that looks like an original bakelite steering wheel.

I'm not a Vitesse man, maybe Vits are different but I know that for early Spits those are quite hard to come by, for those seeking originality.  Theres one being hawked on the Bay of Evil for £300 I believe. Seems the first mods every new owner did in the past were changing the wheel to a smaller sporty one, alloy rocker cover and a pair of K&N's. Must have added at least 0.005bhp.. and the originals went in the skip.

Please dont think of changing it.

J


I had no idea!
That's a keeper then! I'll be super careful when i pull it off!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 10:04pm Report to Moderator

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I found this picture of the impact clamp.
I'm a little worried that mine is upside down. I suppose it's possible looking at the rack.



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 10:28pm Report to Moderator

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Sorry.
This thread might as well be called Paula's Vitesse!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Richard B
January 6, 2017, 10:38pm Report to Moderator

Richard Brake
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Hi Paula,

Is yours a Vitesse 1600?  if so this may help, and is a good price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triu.....8:g:SVkAAOSw6DtYTUpG

Nothing against the Haynes Manuals, but...


If you can, try to get to Stoneleigh spares day in February. loads of goodies and quite a few of the forum contributors attend.


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 11:17pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Richard B
Hi Paula,

Is yours a Vitesse 1600?  if so this may help, and is a good price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triu.....8:g:SVkAAOSw6DtYTUpG

Nothing against the Haynes Manuals, but...


If you can, try to get to Stoneleigh spares day in February. loads of goodies and quite a few of the forum contributors attend.


I think i just downloaded that from here: http://vitessesteve.co.uk/Servicemanuals
I did make a donation too. because i'm nice


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 11:18pm Report to Moderator

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I don't think i can make that spares day. But i'm very keen to go to one


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 6, 2017, 11:24pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Richard B
Hi Paula,

Is yours a Vitesse 1600?  if so this may help, and is a good price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triu.....8:g:SVkAAOSw6DtYTUpG

Nothing against the Haynes Manuals, but...


If you can, try to get to Stoneleigh spares day in February. loads of goodies and quite a few of the forum contributors attend.


Dammit, i've been drinking wine and i've bought that too!



Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Richard B
January 6, 2017, 11:50pm Report to Moderator

Richard Brake
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I've renamed the thread for you. I don't think you have wasted any money on that manual.


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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efp
January 7, 2017, 4:40am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


I had no idea!
That's a keeper then! I'll be super careful when i pull it off!


Good to hear 😀

Again, can't speak for  Vitesses, but wood rim Formula wheels were an official upgrade on spits/gt6s, and Moto-litas are classic albiet unofficial, enhancement, but anything else is to my mind a retrograde step. But then I am a tad originality obsessive.. whatever works for you. To my mind the original bakelite looks just right, but I can understand those who dont like the size/feel.

Forgot to mention: the gearknob is the other item usually swapped out by new owners. If yours is the original, again, count yourself lucky: they are also like rocking-horse poo.

J


1967 Spitfire MkII, nearing end of restoration
1965 Land Rover S2A, awaiting MOT
2002 BMW 535i,  daily driver, 114k on the clock
2004 Mercedes CLK 200K, alternate daily driver, 143k on clock
1976 International 464 tractor....
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Paula
January 7, 2017, 9:36am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Richard B
I've renamed the thread for you. I don't think you have wasted any money on that manual.


Ha! That's brilliant Stand by for many more questions. Next up fuel gauge.
Pretty sure i've got this one covered though, just waiting for some wire to be delivered from ebay


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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TedTaylor
January 7, 2017, 11:35am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from efp


but wood rim Formula wheels were an official upgrade on spits/gt6s, and Moto-litas are classic albiet unofficial, enhancement, but anything else is to my mind a retrograde step.


Forget Formula.  Apart from the one at £300 on ebay I have a restored one for sale at £100 - for a small chassis car (i.e. Vitesse) but without the boss.  

Yes Formula are very nice and correct upgrade but Motoita are more practical as full range of bosses and styles.

MUT


Mad Uncle Ted!
Growing old is inevitable but growing up is optional.

AFH849B Mk1 2000 period rally replica (under restoration ..... again) First re-built 1991
NAM616G Morris 1800 London Sydney/Monte/World Cup (awaiting restoration)
SCG115G Mk1 PI estate
WDE 76K Mk2 2500 estate (Woodie) RBRR 2014   2016  
LSE Soft Dash Range Rover with Brooklands body kit on LPG (Still for sale)

From the depths of the Forest of Dean....
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Mark Hammond
January 7, 2017, 9:12pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


I had no idea!
I'll be super careful when i pull it off!


Ooer Missus!!!

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Paula
January 8, 2017, 11:55am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark Hammond


Ooer Missus!!!

Mark


Ooooh Matron!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Sheepy
January 8, 2017, 1:40pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


Dammit, i've been drinking wine and i've bought that too!



It's dangerous to drink and surf the bay of evil!  


There are other opportunities for spares days, and even autojumbles, but that one in stonleigh is the main one dedicated to our trumps.


Cheers
Shaun

i'm worried that when I die my wife will sell all my car parts for what I told her they were worth!  

67 MK3 spit
42 Chevy cargo truck
Some bikes (not push bikes)
Land Rover series 3 (doing it up to sell)
Belgium (I'm Binglish)
RBRR 2014 'team broom' in the renown!
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TedTaylor
January 8, 2017, 5:49pm Report to Moderator

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And there will be a CT club stand there so you can meet some more of us raving lunatics - speaking about myself of course

MUT


Mad Uncle Ted!
Growing old is inevitable but growing up is optional.

AFH849B Mk1 2000 period rally replica (under restoration ..... again) First re-built 1991
NAM616G Morris 1800 London Sydney/Monte/World Cup (awaiting restoration)
SCG115G Mk1 PI estate
WDE 76K Mk2 2500 estate (Woodie) RBRR 2014   2016  
LSE Soft Dash Range Rover with Brooklands body kit on LPG (Still for sale)

From the depths of the Forest of Dean....
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Paula
January 8, 2017, 7:13pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TedTaylor
And there will be a CT club stand there so you can meet some more of us raving lunatics - speaking about myself of course

MUT


I think i'll fit right in!
Shame i'm away though.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 9, 2017, 11:33am Report to Moderator

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I mean i just made a fuel gauge checker from an old glasses case.
That's time consuming, unnecessary and cost money.
Exactly the sort of thing i love.



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Paula
January 9, 2017, 11:37am Report to Moderator

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I think i got it right with 200ohms?



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JohnD
January 9, 2017, 12:47pm Report to Moderator


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Black magic box, Paula!

What does it do?
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 9, 2017, 12:51pm Report to Moderator

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It should do the job of the fuel level sender so i can check the sender, wires and gauge without taking it out of the tank.
It's just a variable resistor (potentiometer) for couple of quid on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1218.....e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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JohnD
January 9, 2017, 1:04pm Report to Moderator


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Spot on, Paula.

See: http://www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,936993  GT6 sender almost certainly the same

Quote: "Full - ~32 ohms

Half - ~100 ohms

Empty - ~253 ohms"

John
That's a most professional-looking multimeter!


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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ferny
January 9, 2017, 1:05pm Report to Moderator

Mr Hoppy!
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I just used a stick through the tank neck...


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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Paula
January 9, 2017, 1:08pm Report to Moderator

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I like it as it's analogue and very very cheap. I've had it a couple of years and it's a bargain too! £10!
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/mt-2017-large-analogue-multimeter-n60lk


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Paula
January 9, 2017, 1:13pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ferny
I just used a stick through the tank neck...


That would also work  


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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sparky_spit
January 9, 2017, 2:58pm Report to Moderator

Mike Banks
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Excuse if I'm being a bit stupid and have missed something, but that reading on the multimeter is showing 20 Ohms.  If you had the rotary switch on the X10 range then it would be 200 Ohms.

I'm only saying this in case you are trying to calibrate your glasses-case-potentiometer-tank-sender-test-equipment before using it, ending up with an error, and having to resort to using Ferny's stick.


Location - North Essex

1968 MkIII Spitfire - 2009, 2013, 2015 10CR. 2009, 2010 Nachtrit. 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 HCR (..and 11/14ths of the 2011 10CR)
Yamaha RS200 two stroke smoke machine.
Royal Enfield Bullet 500
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Paula
January 9, 2017, 4:19pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from sparky_spit
Excuse if I'm being a bit stupid and have missed something, but that reading on the multimeter is showing 20 Ohms.  If you had the rotary switch on the X10 range then it would be 200 Ohms.

I'm only saying this in case you are trying to calibrate your glasses-case-potentiometer-tank-sender-test-equipment before using it, ending up with an error, and having to resort to using Ferny's stick.


The meter is on X1 not X10 i was checking to see if it went from 0 to 200 ohms.
It's on 20 ohms on the meter just because that's where the pot is at the moment.
It's got a name now though!
Ladies and gentlemen i give you The glasses-case-potentiometer-tank-sender-test-equipment! Or GCPTSE for short!
I'll get me stick.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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TedTaylor
January 9, 2017, 5:56pm Report to Moderator

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Who's a cl;ever girl them!

Personally I have peak into the tank using the light from a match to see with.

MUT


Mad Uncle Ted!
Growing old is inevitable but growing up is optional.

AFH849B Mk1 2000 period rally replica (under restoration ..... again) First re-built 1991
NAM616G Morris 1800 London Sydney/Monte/World Cup (awaiting restoration)
SCG115G Mk1 PI estate
WDE 76K Mk2 2500 estate (Woodie) RBRR 2014   2016  
LSE Soft Dash Range Rover with Brooklands body kit on LPG (Still for sale)

From the depths of the Forest of Dean....
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Paula
January 9, 2017, 6:39pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TedTaylor
Who's a cl;ever girl them!

Personally I have peak into the tank using the light from a match to see with.

MUT


if you run the flame along the seams of the tank you can find any leaks too!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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vitesse 68
January 9, 2017, 7:29pm Report to Moderator

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Hi have been following this thread , its nice to see a new member on here with a sense of humour and showing willing good luck and welcome to the Triumph Loonie Club  


Pete Sargent
Fordham Ely Cambs

1967 mk1 saloon (yellow)
1968 mk1 vitesse con (damsom)
1970 1360 saloon ( valanica)
1990 fiat126 bis
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Radders
January 9, 2017, 7:44pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from vitesse 68
Hi have been following this thread , its nice to see a new member on here with a sense of humour and showing willing good luck and welcome to the Triumph Loonie Club  


It's also far more entertaining than Davemate's threads.  



1968 Mk1 2600 Saloon in Slate Grey.
1969 Mk1 2.5 Pi Saloon in White
1967 Mk1 2000 in Wedgewood

HCR 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
Essex Winter Rally 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017
CT Autosolo 2010, 2011
3 Counties Rally 2010, 2011, 2017
Round Britain Reliablilty Run 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016
International Auto Ecosse 2011, 2012
Ten Countries Run 2011, 2013, 2017
23rd Nachtrit 2011, 24th Nachtrit 2012
South Coast Rally 2011, 2012
Chinese Rally 2012, 2013, 2014, 2017
Summer Rally 2012
Welsh Rally 2013
Suffolk Winter Rally 2014
BCC Santa Special 2014, 2016
Euro Tour 2015 (Fr, Ger, CZ, NL, Belgium)  
Mops on tour 2013, 2015, 2016 x2 2017
CT Warks Rally 2017
Hughes Rally 2017
East Anglian Classic 2017
Mercian Rally 2017




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Paula
January 9, 2017, 9:45pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from vitesse 68
Hi have been following this thread , its nice to see a new member on here with a sense of humour and showing willing good luck and welcome to the Triumph Loonie Club  


Thanks!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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TedTaylor
January 9, 2017, 10:10pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Radders


It's also far more entertaining than Davemate's threads.  





Mad Uncle Ted!
Growing old is inevitable but growing up is optional.

AFH849B Mk1 2000 period rally replica (under restoration ..... again) First re-built 1991
NAM616G Morris 1800 London Sydney/Monte/World Cup (awaiting restoration)
SCG115G Mk1 PI estate
WDE 76K Mk2 2500 estate (Woodie) RBRR 2014   2016  
LSE Soft Dash Range Rover with Brooklands body kit on LPG (Still for sale)

From the depths of the Forest of Dean....
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efp
January 9, 2017, 10:13pm Report to Moderator

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Memo to self: create new user account for myself under the name Sharon, and use cute female avatar pic.
Sit back and enjoy very quick and friendly responses and banter for some reason.

Lol No offence Paula, you seem to be fitting right in, know what you are talking about and no one can deny the happy novelty of having an enthusiastic female in this bastion of grumpy greasy old gits.  Wish there more like you.  Welcome.


1967 Spitfire MkII, nearing end of restoration
1965 Land Rover S2A, awaiting MOT
2002 BMW 535i,  daily driver, 114k on the clock
2004 Mercedes CLK 200K, alternate daily driver, 143k on clock
1976 International 464 tractor....
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Nick Jones
January 9, 2017, 10:42pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from efp


Lol No offence Paula, you seem to be fitting right in, know what you are talking about and no one can deny the happy novelty of having an enthusiastic female in this bastion of grumpy greasy old gits.  Wish there more like you.  Welcome.


Just so.  Though I'm not sure  about the "bastion of grumpy, greasy old gits".  I'm not that old...... am I?    I mean, my kids say I am but I don't take any notice of them  

Nick

PS, waiting for the title to change to (working again!)!


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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ferny
January 10, 2017, 12:09am Report to Moderator

Mr Hoppy!
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Quoted from efp
Memo to self: create new user account for myself under the name Sharon, and use cute female avatar pic.
Sit back and enjoy very quick and friendly responses and banter for some reason.

Lol No offence Paula, you seem to be fitting right in, know what you are talking about and no one can deny the happy novelty of having an enthusiastic female in this bastion of grumpy greasy old gits.  Wish there more like you.  Welcome.


I think that thought train says rather more about you than anyone else...


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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Jonny-Jimbo
January 10, 2017, 9:02am Report to Moderator

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I don't see the need to comment on it - you don't say 'Oh look there's another bloke joined the club'...


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Davemate
January 10, 2017, 9:26am Report to Moderator


Posts: 3,491
Posts Per Day: 1.17
Quoted from Radders


It's also far more entertaining than Davemate's threads.  



Even though there's not a single mention about
"Strong wind"
"Water magically disappeared"
"Poo drain dye"
"Whoops that's not supposed to do that,is it !"
"I'll have to ask the wife"

I could go on for pages and pages,but you'd all get bored  



Herald 1500,rallyfied- overdrive,swing spring with 1500 spit diff,440lb front springs, adjustable height spax on front and back, trunionless conversion,thicker arb,rear roll cage,harnesses,bucket seats,extra gauges,Vitesse steering wheel,genuine 5.5j smoothies wheels,4 branch manifold
Still for sale

Mk1 2000 saloon,now a 2.5   

Timing marshal CT autosolo Bovington 2011,2012,half of 2013,2014 and 2016
Marshalled Essex winter rally 2013
RBRR 2012, co driver
24th Nachtrit 2012, navigator
Chinese rally 2013, navigator
Essex winter rally 2014, navigator
HCR 2014, co driver
RBRR 2014, co driver
Essex winter rally 2014,navigator
Warwickshire winter rally 2016,driver
HCR 2016 driver
Essex winter rally 2016 navigator
Mr Radders official calm down buddy
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timbancroft61
January 10, 2017, 8:52pm Report to Moderator

Still around!
Club Officer
Posts: 12,642
Posts Per Day: 2.42
Yes....we would!

Good old Dave.

Ferny V Dave M.....just who is the king of smut?


Club Triumph Round Britain Reliability Run (Part of the organising team, what a team)!
RBRR is the best car event in the UK, not probably, it is!

1970 GT6 Mk.2: Royal Blue 6 RBRRs (98, 00,02,04,06 & 10), 2 10CRs (03 & 07). 2 HCRs 1 LCC, lots of Autosolos and numerous track days. Bought in 1983, crikey where did the time go! Now running the Roy Lacey cooling system!

1969 2.5Pi Mk.1: Slate Grey 3 10CRs (05,09 & 15), 3 RBRRs (08, 12 & 16), 3 HCRs, 2 LCCs. A few alloy panels, does need the pi kit fitting. Bought April '04. Needs paint! Just fitted some new 7J Minilites-not copies!

1967 Spitfire mk2: Wedgewood Blue. Bought November 2010. Almost seems civilised. Car has done a RBRR (Dave Picton 2010). Blimey, could be on the road soon!
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Paula
January 10, 2017, 10:21pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from efp
Memo to self: create new user account for myself under the name Sharon, and use cute female avatar pic.
Sit back and enjoy very quick and friendly responses and banter for some reason.

Lol No offence Paula, you seem to be fitting right in, know what you are talking about and no one can deny the happy novelty of having an enthusiastic female in this bastion of grumpy greasy old gits.  Wish there more like you.  Welcome.


Maybe i did!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 10, 2017, 10:40pm Report to Moderator

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Any hoo!
I popped down the garage that's looking at the car and giving it a service and i was very impressed to see an old Austin Van and a old American pickup already there.
They seem great.
They told me the problem was with a fuel pipe shorting out the coil. They re routed it and they tell me it's all great now. I can't see how that would make it only cut out when it's warm, but they seem confident.
I haven't got it back yet as they are going to check it all out for me while it's up in the air. ( I thought it was worth having them do it )

He showed me some rust on the Side Chassis Rails. He said it will need welding for the next MOT.
Should i buy a couple and take them to him to weld in or let him weld it up with plates instead?

I'll keep on asking questions until you discover i'm an old geezer called Bob. (short for Kate)  


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 10, 2017, 10:56pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones




PS, waiting for the title to change to (working again!)!


SOON!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Richard B
January 10, 2017, 11:54pm Report to Moderator

Richard Brake
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Quoted from Paula
He showed me some rust on the Side Chassis Rails. He said it will need welding for the next MOT.
Should i buy a couple and take them to him to weld in or let him weld it up with plates instead?


Try and post some pictures of the rust.

Also worth seeing if you have these fitted to the siderails. They are quite often forgotten

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIU.....5:g:LNcAAOSw-zxWoMlP


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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Steve P
January 11, 2017, 8:12am Report to Moderator
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Paula/Kate/Bob,

Didn`t you know about the welding required when you bought it last week?
S


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
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Paula
January 11, 2017, 8:30am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Steve P
Paula/Kate/Bob,

Didn`t you know about the welding required when you bought it last week?
S


No. I missed it.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 11, 2017, 8:37am Report to Moderator

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I don't wish to disparage your local garage (who may be every bit as excellent as the not-so-local one I use for MOTs) but in my experience it is ALWAYS worth a second (expert) opinion on "rust that will need welding next year" that gets spotted by a garage doing mechanical work on the car.

I hope their diagnosis of the fuel pipe shorting is correct. It takes me back to a non-Triumph I had once... a VW Passat that developed intermittent misfire, which grew into occasional stalling, then leaving me stranded waiting for Green Flag... and cost me hundreds of pounds in garage bills trying to find the faulty ignition component. It turned out, eventually, to be the engine earth strap rubbing through the insulation on the wiring loom. Two inches of insulation tape fixed it completely. Unfortunately for the Passat (but not really for me) I'd already bought its replacement - a two-door Toledo - before discovering that.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 11, 2017, 8:47am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce
I don't wish to disparage your local garage (who may be every bit as excellent as the not-so-local one I use for MOTs) but in my experience it is ALWAYS worth a second (expert) opinion on "rust that will need welding next year" that gets spotted by a garage doing mechanical work on the car.

I hope their diagnosis of the fuel pipe shorting is correct. It takes me back to a non-Triumph I had once... a VW Passat that developed intermittent misfire, which grew into occasional stalling, then leaving me stranded waiting for Green Flag... and cost me hundreds of pounds in garage bills trying to find the faulty ignition component. It turned out, eventually, to be the engine earth strap rubbing through the insulation on the wiring loom. Two inches of insulation tape fixed it completely. Unfortunately for the Passat (but not really for me) I'd already bought its replacement - a two-door Toledo - before discovering that.


I'll get photos when i get it back in a day or so.
Feel a bit stupid really as i had all these plans of what i was going to do when i got down to the car, including getting on the floor and checking for rust.
But I got carried away by the new paint job. I thought, if you're going to go to the trouble of respraying you would sort the rust first!
DOH!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Steve P
January 11, 2017, 11:16am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Paula


I'll get photos when i get it back in a day or so.
Feel a bit stupid really as i had all these plans of what i was going to do when i got down to the car, including getting on the floor and checking for rust.
But I got carried away by the new paint job. I thought, if you're going to go to the trouble of respraying you would sort the rust first!
DOH!


I really hope the fact it has a new paint job doesn`t mean its hiding other things.Where did you see it advertised?
S


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
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Sheepy
January 11, 2017, 11:30am Report to Moderator

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Bob,

does that garage also do MOT's?
it depends how bad the rust is, just surface rust and they are paniking, or is it really flacky (like the one in your picture   )
a good picture will help us ( of the rust!) to advise you


Cheers
Shaun

i'm worried that when I die my wife will sell all my car parts for what I told her they were worth!  

67 MK3 spit
42 Chevy cargo truck
Some bikes (not push bikes)
Land Rover series 3 (doing it up to sell)
Belgium (I'm Binglish)
RBRR 2014 'team broom' in the renown!
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efp
January 11, 2017, 1:45pm Report to Moderator

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i'd say that if this garage is telling you that it will need fixing for your 'next' mot, the rot can't be too bad, and they are giving you good professional service in pointing out a potential problem, without trying to panic you out of money now.  A good sign. And means you have plenty of time to get second, or our, opinions before rushing into anything.

Strange that the PO didn't fix/bodge it though, its a easy job compared to many body rot problems.

Look forward to seeing the pics too.  We do love pix here, though I must admit I'm rather remiss in this due to the faff of resizing down each time. Hope this board gets updated one day to a system that can handle images better  

best

Sharon




1967 Spitfire MkII, nearing end of restoration
1965 Land Rover S2A, awaiting MOT
2002 BMW 535i,  daily driver, 114k on the clock
2004 Mercedes CLK 200K, alternate daily driver, 143k on clock
1976 International 464 tractor....
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Bitumen Boy
January 11, 2017, 3:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Richard B


Try and post some pictures of the rust.

Also worth seeing if you have these fitted to the siderails. They are quite often forgotten

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIU.....5:g:LNcAAOSw-zxWoMlP


You learn something new every day, had my Herald over 12 years now and never seen those before, my car certainly doesn't have any. I'm hazarding a guess that fitting them properly is a body-off job, so no point in me worrying about it?
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Dogsbody47uk
January 11, 2017, 7:54pm Report to Moderator
1971 13/60 saloon and 1971 vitesse mk 2 saloon
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They usually get left off on a rebuild. I've had them welded on during my Vitesse chassis rebuild.


First Triumph: 200cc Tiger Cub. Followed by in no particular order, 350 and 500 Royal Enfield Bullet, Herald 1200, Herald 13/60, Mini 1275 GT, Vitesse 2L convertible, Audi 80, Audi 80 Sport, Fiat 124 Sport Coupe, Triumph 2000, Mk 2 Estate, Fiat Tipo, Fiat Stilo, Fiat Uno, Peugeuot Turbo Diesel(yuk), Lancia HPE 2000ie (wow! a dream!) So far 3 Heralds and My fourth Vitesse in the garage. I may have forgotten some... It's my age.. Oh , Honda 400 four.. Terrifying! And the 2 Renault 5s. Oh, and the Ford Granada 3 litre estate..I think that's the lot.
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efp
January 11, 2017, 8:05pm Report to Moderator

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Random and uninformed thought from someone who has no Vit/Herald experience: could these strengtheners be maybe be bonded on in situ (cleaned up) with an adhesive like TigerSeal, possibly tack welded at the corners, to add strength without adding any further rust traps?

Just a thought

Sharon


1967 Spitfire MkII, nearing end of restoration
1965 Land Rover S2A, awaiting MOT
2002 BMW 535i,  daily driver, 114k on the clock
2004 Mercedes CLK 200K, alternate daily driver, 143k on clock
1976 International 464 tractor....
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daver clasper
January 11, 2017, 9:48pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Steve P
Paula/Kate/Bob,

Didn`t you know about the welding required when you bought it last week?
S


Not sure how that is helpful?

Dave

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Richard B
January 11, 2017, 9:53pm Report to Moderator

Richard Brake
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Cut the top edge off where it overlaps and seam weld the join?  


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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Jonny-Jimbo
January 12, 2017, 9:40am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from efp
Random and uninformed thought from someone who has no Vit/Herald experience: could these strengtheners be maybe be bonded on in situ (cleaned up) with an adhesive like TigerSeal, possibly tack welded at the corners, to add strength without adding any further rust traps?

Just a thought

Sharon


Some cars do have bonded panels - I understand some VW products do, and Lotus are well known for bonding together, however, I'd suggest that Tiger Seal wouldn't cut it anywhere near, and you may struggle to persuade an MOT inspector that something that's meant to be welded on is okay if it's bonded. No different to sticking a patch on a chassis with gunk.


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Hogie
January 12, 2017, 12:05pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Folks,
              adhesively bonding skins/panels etc together is a perfectly good and strong method of construction. But!!!

Aircaft have been bonded for decades and works very very well. Actually stronger than rivets as there are no holes (stress raisers) BUT!!!

The parts must be chemically cleaned (possibly plated) and the correct adhesive must be used - Araldite and 3M have an extensive expensive range.
More importantly the repair needs to be 'approved' if that is the right word.
Old car parts are generally welded or bolted. Bonding may be against the 'approved' design feature.

I have a shiny stainless steel air scoop on my 4A ventilation. The hinge has been bonded to the top skin. Araldite was used - it didn't come pout of a tube.

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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RobPearce
January 12, 2017, 12:10pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Hogie
Aircaft have been bonded for decades and works very very well. Actually stronger than rivets as there are no holes (stress raisers)

Yes, but nobody would seriously condone the use of rivets to repair a chassis!

(Actually I did discover that my old 2500S had had a repair to the front suspension turrets performed by the previous owner's MOT garage using rivets but hopefully we're not such cowboys on here.)


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 12, 2017, 12:28pm Report to Moderator

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Would the body have to come off to replace the rails and fit (if necessary) the strengtheners?  


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Jonny-Jimbo
January 12, 2017, 1:02pm Report to Moderator

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Depends where the rot in the side rails is and how bad.

if it's where one of the bolts are, then it may do. If it's away from the bolted section then it MAY be possible to weld it with the body in place, but the sill panel removed. If you have not seen Paula, the side sills on Herald's are just a single skin panel that screw to the lower edge of the tub, and have four ( tabs that hold them onto the chassis too. Fairly simple to remove.


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Paula
January 12, 2017, 1:21pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jonny-Jimbo
Depends where the rot in the side rails is and how bad.

if it's where one of the bolts are, then it may do. If it's away from the bolted section then it MAY be possible to weld it with the body in place, but the sill panel removed. If you have not seen Paula, the side sills on Herald's are just a single skin panel that screw to the lower edge of the tub, and have four ( tabs that hold them onto the chassis too. Fairly simple to remove.


Ok Thanks! I get it back tomorrow. I'll crawl underneath with my phone


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 12, 2017, 1:22pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Jonny-Jimbo
If you have not seen Paula, the side sills on Herald's are just a single skin panel that screw to the lower edge of the tub, and have four ( tabs that hold them onto the chassis too. Fairly simple to remove.

Simple in principle but I've yet to encounter one that didn't have every single one of those self-tapper screws rusted solid to the C-nuts or chassis rails. And one or two of them are awkwardly located for sorting that out. But you may be luckier than I have been


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Hogie
January 12, 2017, 1:50pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Rob,
          not condoning rivets being used anywhere. I was simply explaining that bonding is significantly stronger than rivets.

Many modern super cars are now going over to carbon fibre structures simply because they are stronger  - the classic bonded structure.

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Richard B
January 12, 2017, 1:58pm Report to Moderator

Richard Brake
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Quoted from Paula
Would the body have to come off to replace the rails and fit (if necessary) the strengtheners?  


The siderails can be replaced in situ. I only learnt about the strengtheners recently. But they could be welded to the siderail before fitment and then the tab welded to the rear outrigger.

Replacing the rear outrigger in situ is more of a pain.  


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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ferny
January 12, 2017, 5:05pm Report to Moderator

Mr Hoppy!
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Use rivets for the sills. No worry about rusting screws and they drill out in seconds.


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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efp
January 12, 2017, 5:46pm Report to Moderator

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To be clear, I certainly wasn't suggesting bonding on that strengthening panel as an alternative to properly welding/replacing the rotted rail, it's a given that that needs to be done properly.

However, it's unclear to me whether that strengthener is factory-original or an aftermarket add-on to strengthen what Triumph originally thought was adequate. The fact that some owners here have never seen or heard of this item makes me suspect the latter, but I'm happy to be corrected.

If it is an add-on, then I was floating the idea in response to the question of whether it could be fitted without tub removal. I would humbly suggest that if Triumph thought the un-strengthened members were adequate then the strength added by the extra panel could not be detrimental to the structural rigidity or MOT-ability, but only add to it.  I'd even suggest that a layer of suitable bonding adhesive across the entire mating surface would create a stronger and easier bond than flange welding and avoid those cavity gaps that capillary action of water and rust love.

Whether Tigerseal/Sikaflex would be adequate I agree is arguable, the first thing that came into my head, and were it a structurally crucial joint which relied on its strength I'd also say no, (and god forbid rivets) but the manufacturers data sheets states it is suitable as a panel adhesive and as others have said, if glues are good enough for Maclaren, helicopter airframes, wings.spoilers, etc I see no reason why they shouldn't be used in this non-crucial instance as a simple-to-do adjunct to the existing 100% strength of the existing chassis members.  Applied to sound clean surfaces I've found Tigerseal to be a ferociously strong bonding agent across many projects.


As I said, just thinking aloud. I defer to the Vit/Herald experts.


1967 Spitfire MkII, nearing end of restoration
1965 Land Rover S2A, awaiting MOT
2002 BMW 535i,  daily driver, 114k on the clock
2004 Mercedes CLK 200K, alternate daily driver, 143k on clock
1976 International 464 tractor....
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Nick Jones
January 12, 2017, 6:25pm Report to Moderator

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The strengtheners are factory original.  My Vitesse chassis has all original outriggers/side rails and has these fitted.  They make excellent mud traps.  Not sure they contribute much structurally.

I think they would be reasonably easy to fit as part of a side rail replacement (using the method suggested by Richard above) but more or less impossible to add later.  Many cars have been running round for years without them so debatable whether they are worth the effort anyway.  Were I replacing the side-rails I'd start with a length of suitably sized ERW box section (40mm with 2 mm wall).

Tigerseal is indeed a ferociously strong bonding agent when used wisely.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Mark Hammond
January 12, 2017, 9:15pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
Would the body have to come off to replace the rails and fit (if necessary) the strengtheners?  


No.  The outriggers and side rails can all be replaced with the body en-situ however, there is a specific factory bulletin which details this.  The only issue is welding the top seam of each outrigger to the mainrail.  Many cars had the outriggers replaced with the top edge unwelded, although far from ideal, I am sure that it really didn't make that much difference (says he dodging the missiles coming his way....

Siderail replacement is easy provided (a) the outriggers are sound and (b) the body mounts aren't rotten and crumbling.  Whereabouts are you based?

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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JensH
January 12, 2017, 9:52pm Report to Moderator

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http://www.fairpoint.net/~herald948/database/chassis.htm

Did replace both outer siderails (from Chic Doig - ebay) and one rear outrigger on a friends Vitesse last year. No problem with the body on.

Nice car btw.

/Jens
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Paula
January 12, 2017, 10:17pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JensH
http://www.fairpoint.net/~herald948/database/chassis.htm

Did replace both outer siderails (from Chic Doig - ebay) and one rear outrigger on a friends Vitesse last year. No problem with the body on.

Nice car btw.

/Jens


Sweeeeeet!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 12, 2017, 10:20pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark Hammond


No.  The outriggers and side rails can all be replaced with the body en-situ however, there is a specific factory bulletin which details this.  The only issue is welding the top seam of each outrigger to the mainrail.  Many cars had the outriggers replaced with the top edge unwelded, although far from ideal, I am sure that it really didn't make that much difference (says he dodging the missiles coming his way....

Siderail replacement is easy provided (a) the outriggers are sound and (b) the body mounts aren't rotten and crumbling.  Whereabouts are you based?

Mark


I'm in Streatham Saaaaaaaaaarf London


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Richard B
January 12, 2017, 10:49pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JensH
http://www.fairpoint.net/~herald948/database/chassis.htm

Did replace both outer siderails (from Chic Doig - ebay) and one rear outrigger on a friends Vitesse last year. No problem with the body on.


Hi Jens, that link appears to be dead ?  

How did you weld the top of the rear outrigger to the main chassis with the body in situ? What I have done is cut a section out of the bottom of the outrigger, then welded it from inside the outrigger to the top of the chassis rail and refitted the cut out section.

I believe it does need to be welded on all four sides for strength.


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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Mark Hammond
January 12, 2017, 11:28pm Report to Moderator

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The official fix was to weld a strip of steel to the mainrail then attach to the top of the 'rigger then weld the other sides.  I get the bit about all of it needs welding for strength etc but most replaced outriggers weren't in my experience.  Streatham not far from me (in Cobham, Surrey) if you want I could give a second opinion.  I always love the "it'll need welding for the next MOT" stance garages take.  If it needs it by then, it'll need it now IMHO.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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efp
January 13, 2017, 1:15am Report to Moderator

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Sorry, can't help. I'm in norf Lunnon. Dont have the immunisations or visa to go south of the river.
Sharon
😁


1967 Spitfire MkII, nearing end of restoration
1965 Land Rover S2A, awaiting MOT
2002 BMW 535i,  daily driver, 114k on the clock
2004 Mercedes CLK 200K, alternate daily driver, 143k on clock
1976 International 464 tractor....
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JensH
January 13, 2017, 5:53pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Richard B


Hi Jens, that link appears to be dead ?  


Working on my pc, but try to use this url and scroll down to 'Chassis outriggers need replacing ...'

http://www.fairpoint.net/~herald948/database/

Its one of the US members' work, not mine - so all credit to him (can't remember his name, but told me last time I did put the link up. Hope its okay )
It has been a good help for me though

Cheers,
Jens (Copenhagen)
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vitessesteve
January 13, 2017, 6:45pm Report to Moderator

Steve Weblin: Forum Moderator and Blogmaster
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Link works in Chrome but not Firefox for me.

Try this http://www.fairpoint.net/~herald948/database/chassis.htm

The website is written in a very old style, looking at the code it is  wonder it shows in any modern browser.  Viewing in quirks mode may help.  I think it was written using an old microsoft editor intended for Microsoft Explorer.


PLEASE help us to maintain a friendly forum, use Report post button if you see anything you are unhappy with. Thanks.
Steve Weblin - AKA vitessesteve Forum Moderator and blogmaster

Cars - Valencia Blue 69 Vitesse Mk2 Saloon since 1991 and a TR7 Sprint.

blog http://vitessesteve.blogspot.com/ website http://www.vitessesteve.co.uk/

Newark UK based - studied class car restoration at Leeds City College


https://www.facebook.com/stephen.weblin
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Paula
January 13, 2017, 9:35pm Report to Moderator

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Well that was disappointing.
Went and picked the car up and it was running lovely. Went to sainsbury's 2 and a half miles away bought some shopping, feeling very happy. (mainly pizza and beer in the boot)
Then on the way back it was not idling at all. running fine but would die if i took my foot off the accelerator.
Finally it died on a main road and refused to start again.
So i called the RAC and they were pretty quick this time and it turned out the guy used to have one! Still has some parts in his shed.
His diagnosis was that there is some fuel starvation he turned up the idle to get me home and followed me back.
He suggested i get someone to get the carbs set up and check the diaphragm and check for blockages.
It's going back to the garage down the road tomorrow morning and if they can't sort it i'll have to take it to an expert i think....
Real shame as i was really looking forward to getting on the road!
Dammit!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 13, 2017, 9:39pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from efp
Sorry, can't help. I'm in norf Lunnon. Dont have the immunisations or visa to go south of the river.
Sharon
😁


You're not welcome down here Sharon. With your North London ways of electrickery and running water pipes


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 13, 2017, 9:58pm Report to Moderator

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This just came up on the telly as i was typing in here.



This post contains attachments; to download them you must login.



Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 14, 2017, 8:30am Report to Moderator

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How far had you gone, and how warm had it got? Tessa had big fuel supply problems when hot after her engine swap, due to evaporation in the pump. I had put that down to having "temporarily" fitted a Herald pump (the replacement engine was a post-5000 2L which needs a different pump to the pre-5000 it was replacing) since I'd never experienced it on the old engine. However, it is a known issue with modern fuel.

By the way, if you do conclude that the fuel pump needs work, I still have Tessa's old, good one, which should be correct for a 1600.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 14, 2017, 8:32am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce
How far had you gone, and how warm had it got? Tessa had big fuel supply problems when hot after her engine swap, due to evaporation in the pump. I had put that down to having "temporarily" fitted a Herald pump (the replacement engine was a post-5000 2L which needs a different pump to the pre-5000 it was replacing) since I'd never experienced it on the old engine. However, it is a known issue with modern fuel.

By the way, if you do conclude that the fuel pump needs work, I still have Tessa's old, good one, which should be correct for a 1600.


THat's interesting.
It's back in the garage this morning, the guy didn't look happy to see me again.  I'll see what it's like when i get it back!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Richard B
January 14, 2017, 10:07am Report to Moderator

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Are there any fuel filters fitted, as they might need replacing.

If you have fuel starvation problems then it could be the pump failing or the pipe to the tank getting blocked with rust.

If the car had not been used very much before you bought it, then rust may have formed inside the tank through condensation, (had this on my Spitfire).

With a Herald / Vitesse tank the pump has to lift the fuel up out of the tank so any impediment to flow will restrict delivery of fuel.

An airline down the pipe from the engine bay can often clear this.


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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Hogie
January 14, 2017, 10:49am Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula,
           a problem that happens on the TR series when the car comes to a standstill is caused by the fuel tank vents getting blocked.
Some tanks (TR4) have a separate pipe, some (TR4A/5/6) have a vented fuel cap.

If it happens again on your car remove the fuel cap - you may hear a suction noise - and try to start.

Roger



TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Paula
January 14, 2017, 3:16pm Report to Moderator

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ON THE ROAD!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 14, 2017, 3:18pm Report to Moderator

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My local guy found an old tool for doing the carbs and it's all lovely!!
Right!
Where's the sunshine and country roads?!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Hogie
January 14, 2017, 3:26pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula,
              don't leave us in suspense - what did the old tool do ???

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Paula
January 14, 2017, 5:37pm Report to Moderator

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Bit of a funny story really.
He balanced the carbs using a vacuum measuring tool thingy and tightened up all the linkages and it was running fantastic.
He went for a longish drive and all good.
I came down to pick it up and was very impressed on how it was running.
So off i went down the road until about half a mile and it cuts out again! I phoned the garage and he came out to get me, (he had actually finished for the day but did it in his own time. (massive thanks to Fallsbrook Motors in Streatham!)

This is where it gets a bit embarrassing.
I'd ran out of petrol.

Luckily i knew about the reserve lever and that was that. I felt a right plonka!
Since then i've driving around stopping and starting and its all lovely.

Very very happy.

Better get that fuel gauge replaced ASAP!




Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Hogie
January 14, 2017, 6:25pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula,
              no matter how clever one is (I'm a right bright spark) things go embarrassingly wrong at times.

Mistakes happen.

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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RobPearce
January 14, 2017, 7:37pm Report to Moderator

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Ah, the old running out of fuel trick   Takes me back to my first Vitesse. The fuel gauge was always off and then stopped working entirely. I got quite good at estimating how many miles I'd get from a tankful. When I investigated the fault, it turned out the float on the sender was full of petrol, and thus not... err... floating. There was a pinhole in it. I didn't have a spare to hand so I emptied it out, plugged it as best I could and made do. Worked quite well for a while...

Glad you've got it all sorted on the carbs front, and no new fuel pump needed.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Rallyspit
January 14, 2017, 7:45pm Report to Moderator
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Don't forget to change the reserve lever back once you've filled up. Otherwise you will pick up all the crap from the bottom of your tank. Putting the lever back to main sucks the fuel from slightly higher up the tank.
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Paula
January 14, 2017, 8:19pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce
Ah, the old running out of fuel trick   Takes me back to my first Vitesse. The fuel gauge was always off and then stopped working entirely. I got quite good at estimating how many miles I'd get from a tankful. When I investigated the fault, it turned out the float on the sender was full of petrol, and thus not... err... floating. There was a pinhole in it. I didn't have a spare to hand so I emptied it out, plugged it as best I could and made do. Worked quite well for a while...

Glad you've got it all sorted on the carbs front, and no new fuel pump needed.


Thanks!
Very happy and i've learnt so much so quickly!
I think the problem is with the gauge. More investigating needed!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 14, 2017, 8:20pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Rallyspit
Don't forget to change the reserve lever back once you've filled up. Otherwise you will pick up all the crap from the bottom of your tank. Putting the lever back to main sucks the fuel from slightly higher up the tank.


I remembered that from my Vespa days!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 14, 2017, 8:22pm Report to Moderator

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What do we do with this thread now?
I've more to do and i'll definitely have more questions.
Should i start a new thread for each problem now?
(I may print this one and keep it)


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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yorkshire_spam
January 14, 2017, 8:24pm Report to Moderator

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Your choice! Some of us keep a blog, others a single thread (See WIMPUS' thread in the spitfire/gt6 section!) others just post in the most appropriate section each time we need something.
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Paula
January 14, 2017, 8:34pm Report to Moderator

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Oh i'll keep it going then!
Can we drop the broken down bit?
Tempting fate a bit!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Dannyb
January 14, 2017, 9:17pm Report to Moderator

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keep the thread going it's interesting seeing how you get on with the car..
I remember when I first got my Vespa back in 1969 I ran out of petrol so lent down and switched the reserve on but it never made any difference, I pushed the scooter 2 miles to a garage and filled her up, but it still never started.
It turned out I'd switch the petrol to off. It wasn't embarrassing because I never told anyone


Danny Baker
Langdon Hills, Essex.
RBRR Finisher 2012  2014  2016
My first car in 1970 was a 1965 Spitfire4 with 8 port head stage 2 conversion
Now drive 1980 Spitfire 1500
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Paula
January 14, 2017, 10:23pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Dannyb
keep the thread going it's interesting seeing how you get on with the car..
I remember when I first got my Vespa back in 1969 I ran out of petrol so lent down and switched the reserve on but it never made any difference, I pushed the scooter 2 miles to a garage and filled her up, but it still never started.
It turned out I'd switch the petrol to off. It wasn't embarrassing because I never told anyone


Ha! Brilliant


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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vitessesteve
January 15, 2017, 9:44am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
Oh i'll keep it going then!
Can we drop the broken down bit?
Tempting fate a bit!


Just tell me what you would like the thread title to be and I will change it.


PLEASE help us to maintain a friendly forum, use Report post button if you see anything you are unhappy with. Thanks.
Steve Weblin - AKA vitessesteve Forum Moderator and blogmaster

Cars - Valencia Blue 69 Vitesse Mk2 Saloon since 1991 and a TR7 Sprint.

blog http://vitessesteve.blogspot.com/ website http://www.vitessesteve.co.uk/

Newark UK based - studied class car restoration at Leeds City College


https://www.facebook.com/stephen.weblin
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Paula
January 15, 2017, 9:57am Report to Moderator

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Just spent 5 mins with a socket on the steering wheel nut to undo it (The steering wheel was put on upside down) the horn was going off like a crazy giant dinosaur bird all the time i was undoing it.
It was only after i got it off i realised you could pull the little plunger out to stop that happening.
Sorry neighbors!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Hogie
January 15, 2017, 10:57am Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula,
                 keep this thread running.
On another forum I started a thread for my TR4 rebuild. It has had over 1000 replies/posts and nearly 60,000 views.
If you have any funny moments/events (like running out of petrol) post them as it breaks up the boring bits.

All the best

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Richard B
January 15, 2017, 12:29pm Report to Moderator

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I know I moved it here (previously).

But if you intend to keep it going, maybe it should be sent back to the Herald / Vitesse section?


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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ferny
January 15, 2017, 12:32pm Report to Moderator

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I always kept mine running on reserve with a good fuel filter. I'd rather have all the fuel to use and let the filter deal with the dirt rather than having a "back-up" full of shite.

And I've had the same issue with running out of fuel. Once because I'd forgotten my gauge read backwards and only started to move to full when I was almost empty, once on my driveway the day after a 60 mile trip which started with "I better fill up before I leave, but I can't be arsed" and finally when I was waiting in the queue to get fuel... Well, those are the only Triumph related times...


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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WIMPUS
January 15, 2017, 2:14pm Report to Moderator

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I've been reading this thread now and i enjoyed it  

I've been keeping a single thread on this forum for some years now.
Already 155 pages long now  
It's not from all the work i've done on the car, but from when i was doing bodywork until now (driving her daily and nearly 60.000miles later).

Sometimes i post questions in a new thread when it's something special etc.

http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl/Blah.pl?m-1345748567/

Wim


Triumph Spitfire 1500 ( 1978 ) / The Fox  

16/09/2013: First good test drive in 2,5years !
30/09/2013: Back from the garage and on the road !
sept 2014: Now done more then 13.000 miles !
sept 2014: Done 29.000 miles & passed her years inspection again.

Feb 2016: New gearbox and overdrive.
July 2016: Done 45.000 miles.

27Aug 2017: Done 74.500miles !

Enjoying every bit of her, sometimes a 'bit' sideways  
& Also my (only) everyday car !!

https://www.facebook.com/puske1990

Belgium
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kin74
January 15, 2017, 3:52pm Report to Moderator

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The fuel problem is a classic, thankfully the Vitesse has the reserve which save your life!

Get used to recognize the real empty position of you gauge indicator and - possibly - replace the current bimetallic voltage stabilizer with this one: http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/voltage-stabiliser-negative-earth-bha4602.html
It's a cheap, hidden but big improvement.


Alessandro Maschi

Triumph In Italy

1964 Spitfire 4 (sold)
1966 Spitfire Mk2 (running)
1967 Vitesse 2L Convertible (sold)
1969 GT6 Mk2 (running)
1975 Spitfire 1500 (sold)
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Mark Hammond
January 15, 2017, 7:47pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from kin74
The fuel problem is a classic, thankfully the Vitesse has the reserve which save your life!

Get used to recognize the real empty position of you gauge indicator and - possibly - replace the current bimetallic voltage stabilizer with this one: http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/voltage-stabiliser-negative-earth-bha4602.html
It's a cheap, hidden but big improvement.


I wasn't aware that the 1600cc Vitesse 6 had a stabiliser.......

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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kin74
January 16, 2017, 7:34am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark Hammond


I wasn't aware that the 1600cc Vitesse 6 had a stabiliser.......

Mark

Er... for some reason I though Paula's Vitesse was a 2 litre. It seems I lost a couple of small details of this story, somewhere...


Alessandro Maschi

Triumph In Italy

1964 Spitfire 4 (sold)
1966 Spitfire Mk2 (running)
1967 Vitesse 2L Convertible (sold)
1969 GT6 Mk2 (running)
1975 Spitfire 1500 (sold)
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Hogie
January 16, 2017, 9:23am Report to Moderator
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Hi Mark,
            I'm guessing here, but if the 1600 has temp and fuel gauges with the bi-metal/heater design then they would require the voltage stabiliser (I think)!!!

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Paula
January 16, 2017, 3:50pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Richard B
I know I moved it here (previously).

But if you intend to keep it going, maybe it should be sent back to the Herald / Vitesse section?


Good idea!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Richard B
January 16, 2017, 3:59pm Report to Moderator

Richard Brake
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Returned to "from whence it came"  

JRR Tolkien



Gramatically incorrect, but who am I to argue  


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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Paula
January 16, 2017, 4:18pm Report to Moderator

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For FRODO!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Mark Hammond
January 16, 2017, 7:14pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Hogie
Hi Mark,
            I'm guessing here, but if the 1600 has temp and fuel gauges with the bi-metal/heater design then they would require the voltage stabiliser (I think)!!!

Roger


I stand to be corrected (someone will) but I am sure that the 1600 is non stabilised.  If Paula's car is the one from eBay from a few weeks ago then I do believe it's a 1600.

Paula, please confirm?

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Paula
January 16, 2017, 10:03pm Report to Moderator

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Yes. It's a 1600


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 16, 2017, 10:17pm Report to Moderator

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As far as i can tell at the moment the problem is with the gauge as the sender meters out correct (about 30 Ohms at full) and the same reading at the meter. I can run the needle up and down ok with my potentiometer, but the the ohms are all wrong. I wrote down the figures but i think i've made a mistake as they don't make sense.
I'm going to re check and post them here. I also didn't check the voltage at the gauge.
I'm thinking of upgrading the Dynamo to an Alternator too. I'm getting dim headlights and very slow indicators at idle and as i'm using this in London i fear for the battery.
I have a basic understanding of pretty much everything (a real danger!) but this really helped:
http://www.mossmotoring.com/generator-to-alternator-conversion/

I'd love to hear of a easy and cheap way without spending £150 on a kit.

After that i'll probably fit a stereo and a heated rear window element........ Big ideas!!!

The funs only just begun!
I drove to work today and i was the happiest person in London!!!!!!!!!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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heraldcoupe
January 16, 2017, 10:44pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark Hammond
I stand to be corrected (someone will) but I am sure that the 1600 is non stabilised.  


I've just checked the factory wiring diagram and it confirms that there is no voltage stabiliser,

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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RobPearce
January 16, 2017, 10:46pm Report to Moderator

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The alternator conversion has, I'm sure, been covered somewhere on here more than once. However, the essence is:
- find an alternator. The type that was fitted to Dolomites and later Spitfires is easiest, and they are available at reasonable prices
- find the requisite mounting bracket. Again, the one from a Dolomite or 2000 saloon. It's a cast lump that replaces the folded pressed steel thing on the dynamo
- you will also need a spacer tube and a very long bolt, instead of the hex bar thing on the dynamo
- when you've swapped all that lot over, you need to bypass the regulator box. The big wires (brown and brown/green) just get connected together (so the alternator's big terminals go directly to the battery), and the brown/yellows get connected together (so the warning lamp goes to the alternator's small terminal). Make sure both connections are well insulated, of course.

Somebody on here may even have the bits you need lying around. I don't think I do, though (or rather, the alternator in the box on my shelf has a dodgy regulator, so it wouldn't be any good for you).


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 16, 2017, 10:58pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ferny
I always kept mine running on reserve with a good fuel filter. I'd rather have all the fuel to use and let the filter deal with the dirt rather than having a "back-up" full of shite.

And I've had the same issue with running out of fuel. Once because I'd forgotten my gauge read backwards and only started to move to full when I was almost empty, once on my driveway the day after a 60 mile trip which started with "I better fill up before I leave, but I can't be arsed" and finally when I was waiting in the queue to get fuel... Well, those are the only Triumph related times...


I think my gauge has a similar problem. reads around half when full and goes up to full when getting lower...........
Must be the gauge i assume? can i calibrate it or get it serviced?


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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heraldcoupe
January 17, 2017, 7:46am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
I think my gauge has a similar problem. reads around half when full and goes up to full when getting lower...........
Must be the gauge i assume? can i calibrate it or get it serviced?


There are two gauge systems. The early type uses the straight 12V feed from the ignition switch. The later type uses a 10V stabilised feed from the aforementioned voltage stabiliser. The gauge and sender must be matched together as the systems are quie different in the way they work, the reverse reading and odd scaling are typical symptoms of the gauge and sender being from different system types.

This isn't unusual, it's quite common for a replacment fuel tank to be sourced from the 'wrong' kind of Herald or Vitesse, without understanding the sender requirements. As tanks are prone to rust, this is something I've seen time and again. The eraly senders were all fitted to the tank with 6 screws. Later (stabilised) senders can either have the six screws or a locking ring retaining it. Let us know what you've got.

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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JohnD
January 17, 2017, 8:33am Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Richard B
Returned to "from whence it came"  

JRR Tolkien

Gramatically incorrect, but who am I to argue  


I regret that because Google first hits on Lord of the Rings does not mean that it was Tolkein's original phrase.

"From whence it came" was, for instance used by Edmund Burke, describing the origins of the misery of the Irish population in 1798.   The unusual word, "whence", applied to other pronouns has been used by very many speakers and writers seeking a sonorous phrase, from President Kennedy to James Baldwin to Leonardo da Vinci to Clement of Alexandria.

John
PS Who am I to correct another's spelling (!), when I am a grievous sinner, but "grammatically" has two 'm's?


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:17am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from heraldcoupe


There are two gauge systems. The early type uses the straight 12V feed from the ignition switch. The later type uses a 10V stabilised feed from the aforementioned voltage stabiliser. The gauge and sender must be matched together as the systems are quie different in the way they work, the reverse reading and odd scaling are typical symptoms of the gauge and sender being from different system types.

This isn't unusual, it's quite common for a replacment fuel tank to be sourced from the 'wrong' kind of Herald or Vitesse, without understanding the sender requirements. As tanks are prone to rust, this is something I've seen time and again. The eraly senders were all fitted to the tank with 6 screws. Later (stabilised) senders can either have the six screws or a locking ring retaining it. Let us know what you've got.

Cheers,
Bill.


It has a new one fitted by the people that sold me the car. They gave me the reciept it's this one: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-213411




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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Hogie
January 17, 2017, 9:18am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from heraldcoupe


I've just checked the factory wiring diagram and it confirms that there is no voltage stabiliser,

Cheers,
Bill.


Learning all the time !!!  I shouldn't compare one car with another - why did TRiumph change so much, so often?

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:20am Report to Moderator

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Here's a interior picture if that helps in any way.



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:22am Report to Moderator

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Here's a bad picture of the gauge too.



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 17, 2017, 11:22am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
It has a new one fitted by the people that sold me the car. They gave me the reciept it's this one: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-213411

Hmm... Rimmers list two types of sender, differentiated only by the mounting method. Bill says there are three, because the six-bolt type can be either stabilised or non-stabilised. I know who of those I'd trust on matters Triumph...


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 11:40am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce

Hmm... Rimmers list two types of sender, differentiated only by the mounting method. Bill says there are three, because the six-bolt type can be either stabilised or non-stabilised. I know who of those I'd trust on matters Triumph...


Well the one i have fitted gave 30 Ohms at full. Does that tell us anything?


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Jonny-Jimbo
January 17, 2017, 11:43am Report to Moderator

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This would probably explain why my Vitesse temp gauge is always at full cold or off the dial. Either that or it over heats horribly...


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dormant
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Many bits
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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RobPearce
January 17, 2017, 12:15pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
Well the one i have fitted gave 30 Ohms at full. Does that tell us anything?

Right this very moment... no. If I remember, I'll measure Tessa's when I get home (she is full, conveniently, and I know she's the later type, being a 2L).


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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JohnD
January 17, 2017, 12:22pm Report to Moderator


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Paula,
The only thing Bill didn't mention is what the Voltage stabiliser looks like on the later cars.
It's a little metal box, about the size of your end thumb joint, that sits on the back of the speedo.
Wiringwise, it sits between the fuses and the fuel and temp gauges.

What is does is the reverse of "stabilisation" as it turns the volts on and off!    You are a dab with a multimeter, so look at the volts supplied to the gauge.  If you see 12V(about)- 0V - 12v - 0V and so on, on a cycle of a second or so, you have one.     The device averages 10V over time, compensates for variation in the supplied volts which a dynamo car will see, and the On-Off never registers on the gauge as it's heavily damped.

You may be able to see this at the sender too - I've never tried!

See a circuit diagram on Steve's excellent pages of almost all the workshop manuals.   https://app.box.com/s/c970f3ab0c2635962ef5 Page 375

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Nick Jones
January 17, 2017, 1:11pm Report to Moderator

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That's the later dash (or transferred from a later 2L) and surely should have a voltage stabiliser.  If the temperature gauge behaves normally then the stabiliser is there and working but there is still the possibility that the sender is not the matching one.

The early 1600s at least had a single big speedo with the fuel gauge in the bottom of it like the Herald 1200s and they probably don't have voltage stabilisers though types existed for the Heralds at least.......


Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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RobPearce
January 17, 2017, 3:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
That's the later dash (or transferred from a later 2L) and surely should have a voltage stabiliser.

Nick,

That would have been my initial instinct but it has been said that the late 1600s (which did have that style of dash) used different gauges to the 2L. We know Paula's is a later car as it has Strombergs.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2017, 5:33pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
That's the later dash (or transferred from a later 2L) and surely should have a voltage stabiliser.  If the temperature gauge behaves normally then the stabiliser is there and working but there is still the possibility that the sender is not the matching one.

The early 1600s at least had a single big speedo with the fuel gauge in the bottom of it like the Herald 1200s and they probably don't have voltage stabilisers though types existed for the Heralds at least.......


Nick


Partially correct.  The 1600 had a large 110mph single dial (Herald style) up to September 1963 then adopted the 4 dial dash as per Paula's car with a 110mph speedo (as per Paula's car), the MKl 2 Litre had the same style of dash with the arced central switch pattern but had its speedo calibrated to 120mph, the MKll Vitesse of course had a different style of dash altogether.  There aren't many pre-September 1963 Vitesse 1600's left I guess and there weren't that many built between May 1962 and September 1963.  I think that stabilised gauges came in around 1967/8 with the introduction of the Herald 13/60 and possibly a year earlier on the Vitesse with the launch of the 2 Litre.  My guess is that it is a stabilised sender unit in a non stabilised system.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Pete Lewis
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Easy to identify the gauge types
12v non stabilised the needles move imeadiatley and czn wag about on the road
10v stabilised gauges the needle moves slowly in a damped steady movementdo not react instantly

the 12v moving iron gauges must have the correct sender and temp transmitter as both are totally
different to the stabilised gauges

if you  intermix you get very silly readings  hot temperatures and reverse fuel levels

if  you have a bayonet fitting tank  you can fit  6 hole by trimming it around the holes which allows it to seat and lock with the ring

The 6 hole non stabilised fuel sender is hard to find now
, the  non stabilised temp sender is available 121997
stabilised temp sender is gtr108

if you cant find a non stab fuel sender I guess you need to convert both to stabilised



1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 7:41pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Paula,
The only thing Bill didn't mention is what the Voltage stabiliser looks like on the later cars.
It's a little metal box, about the size of your end thumb joint, that sits on the back of the speedo.
Wiringwise, it sits between the fuses and the fuel and temp gauges.

What is does is the reverse of "stabilisation" as it turns the volts on and off!    You are a dab with a multimeter, so look at the volts supplied to the gauge.  If you see 12V(about)- 0V - 12v - 0V and so on, on a cycle of a second or so, you have one.     The device averages 10V over time, compensates for variation in the supplied volts which a dynamo car will see, and the On-Off never registers on the gauge as it's heavily damped.

You may be able to see this at the sender too - I've never tried!


See a circuit diagram on Steve's excellent pages of almost all the workshop manuals.   https://app.box.com/s/c970f3ab0c2635962ef5 Page 375

John


Oh that is interesting. It's sounding a bit like miss matched parts to me. I'll get the meter out and do loads of measuring.


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Paula
January 17, 2017, 7:47pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Paula,
The only thing Bill didn't mention is what the Voltage stabiliser looks like on the later cars.
It's a little metal box, about the size of your end thumb joint, that sits on the back of the speedo.
Wiringwise, it sits between the fuses and the fuel and temp gauges.

What is does is the reverse of "stabilisation" as it turns the volts on and off!    You are a dab with a multimeter, so look at the volts supplied to the gauge.  If you see 12V(about)- 0V - 12v - 0V and so on, on a cycle of a second or so, you have one.     The device averages 10V over time, compensates for variation in the supplied volts which a dynamo car will see, and the On-Off never registers on the gauge as it's heavily damped.

You may be able to see this at the sender too - I've never tried!

See a circuit diagram on Steve's excellent pages of almost all the workshop manuals.   https://app.box.com/s/c970f3ab0c2635962ef5 Page 375

John


Ok i think i need to pull the wooden part of the dash off. There's a few console lights out so that will be easier to sort with it open. I assume it's just the screws on the front of the wooden facia?
I'll take pictures and readings


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Quoted from Pete Lewis
Easy to identify the gauge types
12v non stabilised the needles move imeadiatley and czn wag about on the road
10v stabilised gauges the needle moves slowly in a damped steady movementdo not react instantly

the 12v moving iron gauges must have the correct sender and temp transmitter as both are totally
different to the stabilised gauges

if you  intermix you get very silly readings  hot temperatures and reverse fuel levels

if  you have a bayonet fitting tank  you can fit  6 hole by trimming it around the holes which allows it to seat and lock with the ring

The 6 hole non stabilised fuel sender is hard to find now
, the  non stabilised temp sender is available 121997
stabilised temp sender is gtr108

if you cant find a non stab fuel sender I guess you need to convert both to stabilised



I also have a very wobbly speedo. I assumed that was the cable?
I need to identify what's what and then change what is easiest/cheapest



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Quoted from Paula


Ok i think i need to pull the wooden part of the dash off. There's a few console lights out so that will be easier to sort with it open. I assume it's just the screws on the front of the wooden facia?
I'll take pictures and readings


Nope, just unscrew the gauges from the back of the dash (access is very easy) and replace the bulbs as required.  Most people seem to go for LEDs these days, mine has them too but they're a bit dimmer than the originals.  Wobbly speedo'll be a cable, it'll be kinked or bent to a too sharp angle, just follow the route of the cable and straighten it.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 7:59pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark Hammond


Partially correct.  The 1600 had a large 110mph single dial (Herald style) up to September 1963 then adopted the 4 dial dash as per Paula's car with a 110mph speedo (as per Paula's car), the MKl 2 Litre had the same style of dash with the arced central switch pattern but had its speedo calibrated to 120mph, the MKll Vitesse of course had a different style of dash altogether.  There aren't many pre-September 1963 Vitesse 1600's left I guess and there weren't that many built between May 1962 and September 1963.  I think that stabilised gauges came in around 1967/8 with the introduction of the Herald 13/60 and possibly a year earlier on the Vitesse with the launch of the 2 Litre.  My guess is that it is a stabilised sender unit in a non stabilised system.

Mark


So by what you know at the moment what do i actually have? Is it a MK1 with a Mk2 dashboard. This seems to be my first problem, finding out what i am actually dealing with.
Could you let me know what you would need to tell me? I can take pictures and readings.
I'll pop the dash open and look for the stabiliser.
The temp gauge is always optimistically low and the speedo wags like an excited puppy.


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Quoted from Mark Hammond


Nope, just unscrew the gauges from the back of the dash (access is very easy) and replace the bulbs as required.  Most people seem to go for LEDs these days, mine has them too but they're a bit dimmer than the originals.  Wobbly speedo'll be a cable, it'll be kinked or bent to a too sharp angle, just follow the route of the cable and straighten it.

Mark


OK great!
Will i be able to see the little stabilizer box with the dash in?


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Paula
January 17, 2017, 8:12pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD

See a circuit diagram on Steve's excellent pages of almost all the workshop manuals.   https://app.box.com/s/c970f3ab0c2635962ef5 Page 375

John


I actually have the workshop manual, so that's great!


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herald948
January 17, 2017, 8:33pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Mark Hammond
... I think that stabilised gauges came in around 1967/8 with the introduction of the Herald 13/60 and possibly a year earlier on the Vitesse with the launch of the 2 Litre.
That's what I had always thought, based on what I'd read in the Factory Workshop Manual. But my May 1967-built Sports 1200 has "stabilized gauges" (we got temp gauges as original equipment in the US) and appears also to have been negative earth from new.



--Andy Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22)
http://triumph-herald.us
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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2017, 8:49pm Report to Moderator

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Yours is a later 1600 with the correct dash and won't have a stabiliser.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 8:54pm Report to Moderator

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If i put the part number from the receipt of the fuel sender into canley classics i get this. So that's looking like you were correct.
It's like CSI this!



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heraldcoupe
January 17, 2017, 9:10pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
It has a new one fitted by the people that sold me the car. They gave me the reciept it's this one: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-213411


213411 is the number for the stabilised sender, which would explain your gauge's odd reading perfectly.

Cheers,
Bill.

EDIT: I just saw that you've already found this out. I should have read tp the end of the thread first...


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:12pm Report to Moderator

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Ok. Brilliant.
So now all i need is non stabilised fuel sender. Sounds easy enough.


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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:14pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from heraldcoupe


EDIT: I just saw that you've already found this out. I should have read tp the end of the thread first...


Just got that in time!


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heraldcoupe
January 17, 2017, 9:17pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
So by what you know at the moment what do i actually have? Is it a MK1 with a Mk2 dashboard.


That's not what I'm seeing.
The original Vitesse 6 from 1962 had a dash with a single 5" clock, broadly the same setup as a Herald 1200, bar details.
In the second year of production, a dashboard with twin 4" instruments, speedo and tacho, plus smaller ancilliary gauges was introduced. This looks like what you've got. The same basic dashboard was used on the Mk1 2-litre Vitesse as well, though there may be detail differences.
The Mk2 dash is altogethter different, with a prominent recessed switch panel and tha ashtray moved on top of the dash.

What you have looks (superficially, at least) correct for anything bar the earliest Vitesse 1600s.

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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heraldcoupe
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Quoted from Paula
Ok. Brilliant.
So now all i need is non stabilised fuel sender. Sounds easy enough.


Maybe not quite so brilliant. These have been out of production for some years, there was strong demand for used examples when I used to trade in Triumph parts, so they are now quite thin on the ground.
Look out for NOS (new, old stock) parts, Mick Dolphin would be a good starting point - part number 205003
http://www.mickdolphin.co.uk/

One warning if you manage to find a new or used original. Though the mounting dimensions are identical, the non-stabilised sender is physicaly larger than the stabilised type. Triumph in their wisdom made the aperture in the tank smaller when they introduced the stabilised system, so an early sender won't fit a late tank. If your car still has it's original tank then this won't be a problem, but be aware that there's a poential difficulty.

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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January 17, 2017, 9:26pm Report to Moderator

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Maybe if i use my Glasses case potentiometer in series with the wire to the gauge i could 'tune' the sender to work with the non stabilised gauge?



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RobPearce
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Quoted from Paula
Well the one i have fitted gave 30 Ohms at full. Does that tell us anything?

Too late now, as Bill has confirmed for definite, but Tessa's sender (2L, stabilised type) measured 24 ohms at full.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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heraldcoupe
January 17, 2017, 9:30pm Report to Moderator

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Afraid I don't have the correct readings to hand, but the fact that the direction of operation is reversed would mean the mechanism needing to be inverted as a starting point. This in addition to changine the windings to get an appropriate resistance range.

It might prove easier to install a stabilised gauge and the voltage stabiliser to go with it. Both are easily available, unlike the sender,

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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January 17, 2017, 9:34pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from heraldcoupe
Afraid I don't have the correct readings to hand, but the fact that the direction of operation is reversed would mean the mechanism needing to be inverted as a starting point. This in addition to changine the windings to get an appropriate resistance range.

It might prove easier to install a stabilised gauge and the voltage stabiliser to go with it. Both are easily available, unlike the sender,

Cheers,
Bill.


Can you still get the jaeger gauges?


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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2017, 9:44pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from heraldcoupe
Afraid I don't have the correct readings to hand, but the fact that the direction of operation is reversed would mean the mechanism needing to be inverted as a starting point. This in addition to changine the windings to get an appropriate resistance range.

It might prove easier to install a stabilised gauge and the voltage stabiliser to go with it. Both are easily available, unlike the sender,

Cheers,
Bill.


Which is the way I went with mine.


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Mark Hammond
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Quoted from Paula


Can you still get the jaeger gauges?


Yes.  

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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heraldcoupe
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Quoted from Paula
Can you still get the jaeger gauges?


The Smiths gauges are currently made by Caerbont Automotive Instruments. I'm unsure if they do them with a Jaeger face, the original Smiths and Jaeger instruments were re-branded versions of the same part.

Even if new ones aren't available, originals are very easy to come by, they were used on so many cars of the same era,

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

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January 17, 2017, 10:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from heraldcoupe


Maybe not quite so brilliant. These have been out of production for some years, there was strong demand for used examples when I used to trade in Triumph parts, so they are now quite thin on the ground.
Look out for NOS (new, old stock) parts, Mick Dolphin would be a good starting point - part number 205003
http://www.mickdolphin.co.uk/

One warning if you manage to find a new or used original. Though the mounting dimensions are identical, the non-stabilised sender is physicaly larger than the stabilised type. Triumph in their wisdom made the aperture in the tank smaller when they introduced the stabilised system, so an early sender won't fit a late tank. If your car still has it's original tank then this won't be a problem, but be aware that there's a poential difficulty.

Cheers,
Bill.


Ok so it's looking like a stabilised gauge and stabiliser is probably the way to go. I'm finding it tough to find one that says it's for stabilised senders.
It's also a shame i'll lose the nice one i have that matched the rest.




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Paula
January 17, 2017, 10:16pm Report to Moderator

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Shopping time!
Thanks for the help AGAIN.
I never would have got there on my own!


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Paula
January 17, 2017, 10:27pm Report to Moderator

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Not that i'm 'There' yet!


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Paula
January 17, 2017, 10:30pm Report to Moderator

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Would this do?
With the stabiliser too.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smit.....;hash=item92b758b6f2


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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2017, 10:33pm Report to Moderator

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You just need a gauge from a 2 litre Vitesse (which is visually identical to yours) and a stabiliser.  I might have a stabiliser somewhere, gauge is easy.  Go to Chic Doig and get him to mail you one.  Not sure how it'd wire in tho....  or ask him for the correct sender for the tank.  He is bound to have one.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
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January 17, 2017, 10:35pm Report to Moderator

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glang
January 17, 2017, 10:49pm Report to Moderator

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so would a new stabilised temperature gauge be required as well?
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glang
January 17, 2017, 10:57pm Report to Moderator

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No thinking about it I suppose unlike the normal stabilised set up it would just be the fuel sender and gauge that would use the stabilised supply while the temperature would stay on the non stabilised.....
It certainly would be easier if you could find the correct sender
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Quoted from Mark Hammond
You just need a gauge from a 2 litre Vitesse (which is visually identical to yours) and a stabiliser.  I might have a stabiliser somewhere, gauge is easy.  Go to Chic Doig and get him to mail you one.  Not sure how it'd wire in tho....  or ask him for the correct sender for the tank.  He is bound to have one.

Mark


Ok. I'm worried about the hole in the tank now for the sender. I'll have a look at the wiring diagram and see if i can get my head around it (probably not)
Cheers.


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Paula
January 18, 2017, 9:58am Report to Moderator

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Looks pretty straight forward. Power in (40) and then out to the fuel (41) and temp gauge (43)



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glang
January 18, 2017, 10:12am Report to Moderator

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As I said think you would have to split the supply to the fuel and temp gauges as the second will continue to use the unstabilised voltage and only the fuel one will use the new supply.
This company look like they are the Smiths supplier and appear to produce unstabilised senders:
http://www.caigauge.com/documents/pdfs/pil004a-381.pdf  
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Paula
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Quick question.
Where is the Voltage Regulator for the dynamo?


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Paula
January 18, 2017, 11:32am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
Quick question.
Where is the Voltage Regulator for the dynamo?


FOUND IT!!!!
Thought it would be in the engine bay!


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RobPearce
January 18, 2017, 11:42am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
FOUND IT!!!!
Thought it would be in the engine bay!

But that would be too obvious


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 18, 2017, 11:47am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce

But that would be too obvious


Ha ha!


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Pete Lewis
January 18, 2017, 4:12pm Report to Moderator

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canley list and sell 121997 non stabilsed temp sender

do you happen to have the old fuel sender or was the wrong type fitted by a previous unkown

Pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Paula
January 18, 2017, 6:18pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
canley list and sell 121997 non stabilsed temp sender

do you happen to have the old fuel sender or was the wrong type fitted by a previous unkown

Pete


Wrong type fitted by previous owner.
I'll go check out Canley. I couldn't find it.
Maybe i should just give them a call!
Thanks!


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Paula
January 18, 2017, 7:04pm Report to Moderator

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I'm going to do the alternator upgrade first and then do the fuel gauge. I'm running low on money (bloody taxman)
I've got everything i need. and as far as i can tell once i've fitted the new alternator i just have to bypass the Voltage Regulator.
I've made a super awesome circuit diagram.
It basically says:
At the Voltage Regulator:
Take D (which i believe to be the power from Dynamo)
Connect D straight to A! and A2 to supply the Car with Power bypassing the regulator
Take F and connect it straight to small wire coming out of F (i believe this is already bypassing the Regulator but i'll marry them anyway)
Leave the Earth E as it is.
Sound good?



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 18, 2017, 7:07pm Report to Moderator

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Sorry i forgot to re size



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Mark Hammond
January 18, 2017, 7:14pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
I'm running low on money (bloody taxman)



It's that time of the year again.....

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Matt306
January 18, 2017, 8:31pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
As far as i can tell at the moment the problem is with the gauge as the sender meters out correct (about 30 Ohms at full) and the same reading at the meter. I can run the needle up and down ok with my potentiometer, but the the ohms are all wrong. I wrote down the figures but i think i've made a mistake as they don't make sense.
I'm going to re check and post them here. I also didn't check the voltage at the gauge.
I'm thinking of upgrading the Dynamo to an Alternator too. I'm getting dim headlights and very slow indicators at idle and as i'm using this in London i fear for the battery.
I have a basic understanding of pretty much everything (a real danger!) but this really helped:
http://www.mossmotoring.com/generator-to-alternator-conversion/

I'd love to hear of a easy and cheap way without spending £150 on a kit.

After that i'll probably fit a stereo and a heated rear window element........ Big ideas!!!

The funs only just begun!
I drove to work today and i was the happiest person in London!!!!!!!!!


I got some second hand alternator brackets from Spitfire graveyard or one of the others, a 45/55 amp alternator . Then i followed this blog http://triumphherald1360.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/alternator-conversion.html
The Vitesse should be the same.

What you should also think of is relays for the headlights, and a fuse box.



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Matt306
January 18, 2017, 8:34pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from heraldcoupe


There are two gauge systems. The early type uses the straight 12V feed from the ignition switch. The later type uses a 10V stabilised feed from the aforementioned voltage stabiliser. The gauge and sender must be matched together as the systems are quie different in the way they work, the reverse reading and odd scaling are typical symptoms of the gauge and sender being from different system types.

This isn't unusual, it's quite common for a replacment fuel tank to be sourced from the 'wrong' kind of Herald or Vitesse, without understanding the sender requirements. As tanks are prone to rust, this is something I've seen time and again. The eraly senders were all fitted to the tank with 6 screws. Later (stabilised) senders can either have the six screws or a locking ring retaining it. Let us know what you've got.

Cheers,
Bill.


oohh that would explain my 'dodgy' reading on my triple gauge (volts temp,fuel) I utilised instead of the twin guage



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Paula
January 18, 2017, 8:41pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Matt306


I got some second hand alternator brackets from Spitfire graveyard or one of the others, a 45/55 amp alternator . Then i followed this blog http://triumphherald1360.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/alternator-conversion.html
The Vitesse should be the same.

What you should also think of is relays for the headlights, and a fuse box.



Thanks! I have bought a kit that included the bracket and the alternator. I'm confused about this bit in the blog:

anything greater than 25amp and you'll need to add an extra wire back to the battery.

I have an extra fuse box that i was going to use for the stereo and anything else i might add. Can't think of what though.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 18, 2017, 8:50pm Report to Moderator

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So another cable from the back of the alternator to the battery?
Like this? (Dotted line)



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Matt306
January 18, 2017, 8:57pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


Thanks! I have bought a kit that included the bracket and the alternator. I'm confused about this bit in the blog:

anything greater than 25amp and you'll need to add an extra wire back to the battery.

I have an extra fuse box that i was going to use for the stereo and anything else i might add. Can't think of what though.


Basically your new alternator can bung far greater power back at tick over than the dynamo. An extra (thick 27amp) wire back to the battery or live side of the starter solenoid will save overloading the single 50 year old brown wire going from the dynamo.

When you have the alternator fitted fit a pair of relays and fuses for dip and main beam. A replacement of the sealed beam unit works a treat too, take it from someone who did it before the RBRR.


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Matt306
January 18, 2017, 8:59pm Report to Moderator

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That will work (your dotted line) you may find two large spade terminals on the back of the alternator just run the new wire of one of the big spade terminals. The smaller terminal should be the charging wire (for your dash light)

The "Electricity for stuff" feed can go to a fuse box. In reality I think it goes to the ignition switch then to white wires to the equipment. I think I ran the feed from the switch (white wires) to the fuse box, I soldered extra wire on to the white cables, heat shrunk the cables then attached them to the other side of the  fuse box.

Get a decent crimping tool for the terminals http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/470/category/87 if you haven't already. Cheaper options are available.


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Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
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Paula
January 18, 2017, 9:14pm Report to Moderator

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Brilliant!
I feel ready!!
Watch this space!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 18, 2017, 9:17pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Matt306


Basically your new alternator can bung far greater power back at tick over than the dynamo. An extra (thick 27amp) wire back to the battery or live side of the starter solenoid will save overloading the single 50 year old brown wire going from the dynamo.

When you have the alternator fitted fit a pair of relays and fuses for dip and main beam. A replacement of the sealed beam unit works a treat too, take it from someone who did it before the RBRR.


Ok. I'll put it on the ever growing list!
Along with doing the RBRR one day!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Matt306
January 18, 2017, 9:24pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


Ok. I'll put it on the ever growing list!
Along with doing the RBRR one day!


My first was this year and it was a fantastic experience, driving through Scotland with a trail of 6 cylinder Triumph cars stuck behind my little Herald 1300cc convertible!

I am now planning my 2018 trip, on the list to do is overdrive I might not hold up those big cars up so much



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Paula
January 19, 2017, 5:25pm Report to Moderator

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Success!
That took me all day, but it all works great. The car idles perfect now (it was struggling with the lights on)
I fitted a retro stereo with super subtle speaker position.
Covered the Kick panels in acoustic black fabric.
Very pleased! (feel a bit smart too as i've never done anything like that before)



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 19, 2017, 6:34pm Report to Moderator

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There is now a whistling noise now though. Bit annoying. I checked the belt and that's ok.
Is it just what an alternator sounds like? It's brand new.


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Pete Lewis
January 19, 2017, 6:59pm Report to Moderator

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Paula  back tomthe sender,   top of canleys page theres a search magnify glass  you can search there

Canleys

Home Catalogues Shop Online New & Featured Products Archive 

Buy OnlinePart DiagramsMore...

TEMP TRANS NOT STABALIZED

Part Number : 121997

Price :  (£4.25 ex VAT) EACH
Availability : IN STOCK

Quantity

-+

ack to the sender


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Paula
January 19, 2017, 7:33pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
Paula  back tomthe sender,   top of canleys page theres a search magnify glass  you can search there

Canleys

Home Catalogues Shop Online New & Featured Products Archive 

Buy OnlinePart DiagramsMore...

TEMP TRANS NOT STABALIZED

Part Number : 121997

Price :  (£4.25 ex VAT) EACH
Availability : IN STOCK

Quantity

-+

ack to the sender


That's the temp sender though. I need the fuel one.
I'm probably going to get a 2000 gauge and stabiliser. Seems easier. I'll get on the phone and ring around. I want a nice looking one, so it might be too expensive for me at the mo.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Matt306
January 19, 2017, 9:57pm Report to Moderator

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Whistling... sure its not from the radio? May need a suppressor?


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Paula
January 19, 2017, 10:12pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Matt306
Whistling... sure its not from the radio? May need a suppressor?


No it's the alternator or the belt. the belt that came with the kit is toothed, i thought that might be it.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 20, 2017, 8:12am Report to Moderator

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A toothed belt shouldn't whistle, unless it's over-tight or running more load than a fanbelt should. Rubber cam belts on some relatively modern engines sometimes whine, but they're toothed onto toothed wheels.
I've certainly heard radios whistle as a result of something the alternator does to the supply. I have also heard a faint whistling from some modern alternators. This is usually because, unlike the original Lucas units the Triumph fitted to later cars, the modern ones save on heat dissipation in the regulator electronics by driving the field coil with a PWM signal. Actually, that's exactly the same as the thermo-electric voltage "stabiliser", but instead of switching every couple of seconds, the PWM in an alternator runs at several kiloHertz. This perturbs the winding at that same frequency, which causes it to vibrate and make a whistling sound (especially if the winding is not glued as well as it might be).
I don't recall where you got your alternator, or what type it is. If it whistles loud enough to be annoying then I'd raise it with the supplier.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 20, 2017, 9:49am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce
A toothed belt shouldn't whistle, unless it's over-tight or running more load than a fanbelt should. Rubber cam belts on some relatively modern engines sometimes whine, but they're toothed onto toothed wheels.
I've certainly heard radios whistle as a result of something the alternator does to the supply. I have also heard a faint whistling from some modern alternators. This is usually because, unlike the original Lucas units the Triumph fitted to later cars, the modern ones save on heat dissipation in the regulator electronics by driving the field coil with a PWM signal. Actually, that's exactly the same as the thermo-electric voltage "stabiliser", but instead of switching every couple of seconds, the PWM in an alternator runs at several kiloHertz. This perturbs the winding at that same frequency, which causes it to vibrate and make a whistling sound (especially if the winding is not glued as well as it might be).
I don't recall where you got your alternator, or what type it is. If it whistles loud enough to be annoying then I'd raise it with the supplier.


It is the same whistling you hear with modern cars. Maybe because it's a new noise it's more noticeable.
I'll give it a day or 2 and see if it still bothers me. It's a brand new Lucas Type - 17 ACR - 36 amp Alternator from Rimmers.


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Paula
January 20, 2017, 9:58am Report to Moderator

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I found an youtube video of the same whistle.
https://youtu.be/BBqHWsmvJV4


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 20, 2017, 12:52pm Report to Moderator

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That video sounds more like a bearing or contact whistle, but it's possible it's connected with the cooling fan on the alternator. Is yours proportional to engine speed, like in the video (i.e. the pitch goes up as you rev it)?


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 20, 2017, 1:28pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce
That video sounds more like a bearing or contact whistle, but it's possible it's connected with the cooling fan on the alternator. Is yours proportional to engine speed, like in the video (i.e. the pitch goes up as you rev it)?


Yes it goes up and down with the engine noise. I just went for a drive and it's very quiet.
Maybe i'm being too sensitive.
I'll do a video.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 20, 2017, 1:47pm Report to Moderator

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Here's a video of my car.
It's picked up the whistle very well. It's actually not very noticeable from inside

https://youtu.be/qX1ySzdWJXI


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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JohnD
January 20, 2017, 1:55pm Report to Moderator


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Clearly heard at idle, Paula,
To test if it's the fan belt, spray some WD40 on the belt.
If belt rubbing is the cause, the whistle will stop.

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 20, 2017, 4:42pm Report to Moderator

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I have this reply from Rimmers:

I must say I haven't heard of anything like this before.

I would suggest that this noise is possibly caused by a dry bearing/bush, it seems silly but it could even be a "natural" whistle because of the design of the replacement alternator unit.


I have left comments on our system to express your concern but I would suggest the best course of action is to run the car and report back after a period of 500 miles.

Kind regards
Carl Wright
Customer Services


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 20, 2017, 4:42pm Report to Moderator

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I've just driven 10 miles and i think it's going away.
So i'll see how it goes


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 20, 2017, 4:46pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Clearly heard at idle, Paula,
To test if it's the fan belt, spray some WD40 on the belt.
If belt rubbing is the cause, the whistle will stop.

John


I'm pretty sure it's the alternator now



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Matt306
January 20, 2017, 5:55pm Report to Moderator

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Didn't you say you fitted a Radio? I can recommend Absolute Radio (others are available) turned up to 10 and the whistle will go  


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Paula
January 20, 2017, 6:27pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Matt306
Didn't you say you fitted a Radio? I can recommend Absolute Radio (others are available) turned up to 10 and the whistle will go  


I only listen to the Sssssssshipping forecast Sssssssssssouth by Sssssssssouth Wesssssssssssssst  


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RobPearce
January 20, 2017, 6:30pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
I have this reply from Rimmers:

I must say I haven't heard of anything like this before.

I would suggest that this noise is possibly caused by a dry bearing/bush, it seems silly but it could even be a "natural" whistle because of the design of the replacement alternator unit.

He's not heard it before? When there's tube-of-you videos out there? Oh well.
I think he's right about the bearing, though. It definitely sounds more like a dry bearing/bush than anything belt related.

Many years ago, when I had my first Vitesse as my only car, I heard a gurgling sound from under the bonnet. My first instinct was that it sounded like water boiling, but the temperature gauge was reading normal. Also, the noise sometimes stopped, only to reappear a random time later. I decided to carry on and have a closer look when I reached my destination (my mum's house, as it happened). Well, I duly arrived there and pulled up, popped the bonnet, only for the noise to vanish again. I had a look around but saw nothing obvious. I pulled the throttle cable (this was a late Mk1 with the cable, rather than the rod system that Tessa has, and I presume yours does too). As the engine revved there was a brief puff of smoke from the dynamo pulley and the noise reappeared.
It turned out the dynamo's front bearing had collapsed. When the dynamo was turning (and working fine) the bearing made a gurgling noise. When the bits fell a certain way and the speed was low, the bearing seized up, the fan belt began to slip and the noise went away.
Your noise doesn't sound terminal. If it's getting quieter it may just be something bedding in.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 20, 2017, 7:06pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce

He's not heard it before? When there's tube-of-you videos out there? Oh well.
I think he's right about the bearing, though. It definitely sounds more like a dry bearing/bush than anything belt related.

Many years ago, when I had my first Vitesse as my only car, I heard a gurgling sound from under the bonnet. My first instinct was that it sounded like water boiling, but the temperature gauge was reading normal. Also, the noise sometimes stopped, only to reappear a random time later. I decided to carry on and have a closer look when I reached my destination (my mum's house, as it happened). Well, I duly arrived there and pulled up, popped the bonnet, only for the noise to vanish again. I had a look around but saw nothing obvious. I pulled the throttle cable (this was a late Mk1 with the cable, rather than the rod system that Tessa has, and I presume yours does too). As the engine revved there was a brief puff of smoke from the dynamo pulley and the noise reappeared.
It turned out the dynamo's front bearing had collapsed. When the dynamo was turning (and working fine) the bearing made a gurgling noise. When the bits fell a certain way and the speed was low, the bearing seized up, the fan belt began to slip and the noise went away.
Your noise doesn't sound terminal. If it's getting quieter it may just be something bedding in.


I thought you were going to say you lifted the bonnet and a small woodland creature jumped out!
I agree about the bedding in.
I'll revisit this if i ever notice it again.
Talking of Dynamos Is there anyone that would like my old Dynamo and Voltage regulator? Free of course.


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Matt306
January 20, 2017, 9:41pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


I thought you were going to say you lifted the bonnet and a small woodland creature jumped out!
I agree about the bedding in.
I'll revisit this if i ever notice it again.
Talking of Dynamos Is there anyone that would like my old Dynamo and Voltage regulator? Free of course.


Scrapman?


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
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JohnD
January 20, 2017, 11:01pm Report to Moderator


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A dry bearing?  Do Rimmers expect it to wet itself?

Seems an unsatisfactory answer (I presume they supplied the alternator?) instead of an offer to replace.
Send it back?

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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daver clasper
January 21, 2017, 9:03am Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula

I'm interested in your dynamo and V/R.

Is it ok to PM you

Dave
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CyTry
January 21, 2017, 11:04am Report to Moderator


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My Spitfire (1980) whistles when I have the headlights on. Frequency varies with engine speed.  All belts etc. are tight, it's the alternator itself.  It's not annoying, sometimes I pretend it's a turbocharger...


Spitfire 1500
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Pete Lewis
January 21, 2017, 12:43pm Report to Moderator

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to me thats a pretty normal alternator whine , yes depends on the generation but the diodes or whatever can give  a quite intense howl, whine  just like yours  ,,  

vee belts can give a squealing and sometimes a tin tappng squeaky racket but thats not what you have

there are aerosols of stuff like belt ease to dress the belt whithout loosing grip,  keep an eye out for its useful at odd times

talc powder will also quieten a noisy belt which is more suited to your cuboard.

great stuff to trace oil leaks  ,, dust the pwder and the leak will trace through and show its source...can smell nice too !!!

Pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Paula
January 21, 2017, 1:00pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
A dry bearing?  Do Rimmers expect it to wet itself?

Seems an unsatisfactory answer (I presume they supplied the alternator?) instead of an offer to replace.
Send it back?

John


I'll see how it goes and if it doesn't improve i'll get them to send another one.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 21, 2017, 1:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from daver clasper
Hi Paula

I'm interested in your dynamo and V/R.

Is it ok to PM you

Dave


Yes of course!


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Paula
January 21, 2017, 1:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CyTry
My Spitfire (1980) whistles when I have the headlights on. Frequency varies with engine speed.  All belts etc. are tight, it's the alternator itself.  It's not annoying, sometimes I pretend it's a turbocharger...


Exactly like mine!


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Paula
January 21, 2017, 1:03pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
to me thats a pretty normal alternator whine , yes depends on the generation but the diodes or whatever can give  a quite intense howl, whine  just like yours  ,,  

vee belts can give a squealing and sometimes a tin tappng squeaky racket but thats not what you have

there are aerosols of stuff like belt ease to dress the belt whithout loosing grip,  keep an eye out for its useful at odd times

talc powder will also quieten a noisy belt which is more suited to your cuboard.

great stuff to trace oil leaks  ,, dust the pwder and the leak will trace through and show its source...can smell nice too !!!

Pete


Top tip!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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daver clasper
January 21, 2017, 7:18pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Paula


Yes of course!


Thanks. Have PM ed you

Cheers Dave

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ferny
January 22, 2017, 8:42am Report to Moderator

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The alternator shouldn't whine, or screech. The noise you hear on modern cars is either the power steering pump (Mini's) or cam belt. The one in my Herald makes it sound like a mini-supercharger. Honest.

Look down the line of all the pulleys. Are they perfectly aligned? A possibility for noise is that the alternator pulley isn't perfectly in line with the other two and you're hearing it run on the outside edge of the belt which will slip compared to running on both of its outer sides. Feel free to hold a straight edge up against the pulleys to assist your eyes. My money is on this being the issue.

If all is fine then stick a long screwdriver on your water pump and the other end on your ear when running and see if it sounds like it's coming from there. Drop the belt off and spin the pulleys on both the water pump and alternator and do so again whilst putting load on them. You're looking for anything which doesn't feel constantly smooth. I'm saying this as before everything may have been "loose" and if you've now got everything correct it may be showing up weaknesses on things like the water pump.


Release agents on the belt should have been worn off by now si if it's none of the above... your alternator is buggered. Possibly.


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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Pete Lewis
January 22, 2017, 7:25pm Report to Moderator

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The kit has a lucas 17ACR unit  it will whine and sing  they all do and always did in their heyday
its a normal characteristics of the vintage

from your video I would be more interested in the tappet noise  you can improve that

gaps are 0.010" cold engine   how to details in your manual    

pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Paula
January 23, 2017, 9:33am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ferny
The alternator shouldn't whine, or screech. The noise you hear on modern cars is either the power steering pump (Mini's) or cam belt. The one in my Herald makes it sound like a mini-supercharger. Honest.

Look down the line of all the pulleys. Are they perfectly aligned? A possibility for noise is that the alternator pulley isn't perfectly in line with the other two and you're hearing it run on the outside edge of the belt which will slip compared to running on both of its outer sides. Feel free to hold a straight edge up against the pulleys to assist your eyes. My money is on this being the issue.

If all is fine then stick a long screwdriver on your water pump and the other end on your ear when running and see if it sounds like it's coming from there. Drop the belt off and spin the pulleys on both the water pump and alternator and do so again whilst putting load on them. You're looking for anything which doesn't feel constantly smooth. I'm saying this as before everything may have been "loose" and if you've now got everything correct it may be showing up weaknesses on things like the water pump.


Release agents on the belt should have been worn off by now si if it's none of the above... your alternator is buggered. Possibly.


Thanks!
I got the big ruler out and it all looks spot on.
I'll look more when i get chance and the weather improves a bit!


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Paula
January 23, 2017, 9:34am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
The kit has a lucas 17ACR unit  it will whine and sing  they all do and always did in their heyday
its a normal characteristics of the vintage

from your video I would be more interested in the tappet noise  you can improve that

gaps are 0.010" cold engine   how to details in your manual    

pete


I'll stick it on the list!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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daver clasper
January 23, 2017, 2:33pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Paula

I PMed you again. Not sure if you got it.

Dave
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Paula
January 23, 2017, 6:44pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from daver clasper
Hi Paula

I PMed you again. Not sure if you got it.

Dave


Just replied.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 23, 2017, 7:01pm Report to Moderator

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Had an interesting one today.
I drove to my Dads in Hertfordshire about 80 miles. When i got there i turned the engine off for about 5 mins and it refused to start again. Turning over and not firing at all.
We went for lunch and i tried again over an hour later and still no joy. I left it another 5 mins and tried again and it eventually started.
I drove it to the petrol station and filled it up . It only took 16 litres.
It was then fine.
I drove it all the way home, which was probably less miles but more time in traffic.
When i got home i tried turning it off and on again after various gaps and it's fine.
I did stop and Mooredale Motors and spoke to Dale. Who said he'd have to book it in.
Bloody thing.
I meant to show him the Alternator but i forgot.


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JohnD
January 23, 2017, 8:11pm Report to Moderator


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Might be fuel vaporisation.   Heat radiated or conducted from exhaust manifold cause fuel I supply lines and or float chambers to boil.   Doesn't happen on the move as airflow helps cooling.

A heat barrier between them can help, a sheet of alloy between the carbs and manifold, wide enough to screen the floats.  And make sure the supply inevruns around thgthge front of the engine, preferably not touching the block.

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 23, 2017, 9:25pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Might be fuel vaporisation.   Heat radiated or conducted from exhaust manifold cause fuel I supply lines and or float chambers to boil.   Doesn't happen on the move as airflow helps cooling.

A heat barrier between them can help, a sheet of alloy between the carbs and manifold, wide enough to screen the floats.  And make sure the supply inevruns around thgthge front of the engine, preferably not touching the block.

John


That's interesting. Like a bit of aluminium?


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Matt306
January 23, 2017, 9:36pm Report to Moderator

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triu.....a:g:v1cAAOSwNuxXb9dl
something like this but you need one for your carbs.


Worcestershire Area Organiser search Facebook for Club Triumph Worcester
Triumph 13/60 1970 Convertible  first car restoration, many botches much learnt... Now back MOTd and Taxed... 2016 RBRR COMPLETE
1974 Spitfire Mk IV in Yellow and Rust... for restoration
Triumph 1000cc 1991 Daytona got to go to pay for Yellow Peril
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JohnD
January 23, 2017, 10:44pm Report to Moderator


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Yes.
The idea is to put the carbs, esp. the float chamber, in the direct radiation 'shadow' from the exhaust manifold.
While the manifold is HOT, even if the screen absorbs the heat, it's nothing like so hot, so radiates much less to the carbs.

Plus, if it's mounted by being sandwiched between carbs and inlet manifold, beacsue the sheet has a large area there will be less conduction of heat via the inlet manifold, from the head, to the carbs.

Winner, on both routes of heat transfer!
Find some alloy sheet, EG http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=aluminium+sheet&_sop=15 make up a pattern using CAD (Cardboard Aided Design) so that the carbs can't 'see' the exhaust manifold, cut out the sheet, drill holes to match the inlet bore and bolt holes.    Bingo!  

Proved to work, even with a lash up:  http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1283198758/
Or there's a long, serious thread about it here: http://www.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1303407024/s-0/

Or, you can buy ready mades: http://www.canleyclassics.com/engine/carburettor-heat-shields/

John

PS 1mm alloy sheet is plenty thick enough.


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 23, 2017, 11:14pm Report to Moderator

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Silly not to!
I love the tray idea!
Would the Spitty ones fit my Vitesse?


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 24, 2017, 8:12am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
Would the Spitty ones fit my Vitesse?

No, unfortunately not. The carbs are different (SU rather than Stromberg) with different mounting patterns (SUs are "handed") and they're also spaced differently.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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JohnD
January 24, 2017, 8:17am Report to Moderator


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Oh!  I didn't look further, at the part numbers for Canley's heat shields - which are only for Spitfires!

No, I don't think the dual one would fit. possibly the single carb ones but are they the right shape and are the holes in the right place - I don't know.

So straightforward to make, i'd go that route.
And I said 1mm was more than enough - the disposable foil tray, much thinner,  would be just as good!  See: https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref.....01414CR3S,B00Q1NZHSK
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 24, 2017, 8:27am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Oh!  I didn't look further, at the part numbers for Canley's heat shields - which are only for Spitfires!

No, I don't think the dual one would fit. possibly the single carb ones but are they the right shape and are the holes in the right place - I don't know.

So straightforward to make, i'd go that route.
And I said 1mm was more than enough - the disposable foil tray, much thinner,  would be just as good!  See: https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref.....01414CR3S,B00Q1NZHSK
John


I'll get crafting!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Pete Lewis
January 24, 2017, 12:48pm Report to Moderator

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quick question are you on down draft solex or side draft strombergs  ???

I  converted ny 1600 to strombergs  my Vit6 with tubular 631 manifold  std air box and engine fan with never ever any heating or vaporising fact of myths  about fuels for 12 years

Pete



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1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Paula
January 24, 2017, 12:57pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
quick question are you on down draft solex or side draft strombergs  ???

I  converted ny 1600 to strombergs  my Vit6 with tubular 631 manifold  std air box and engine fan with never ever any heating or vaporising fact of myths  about fuels for 12 years

Pete


Funny you should say that.
I'm on Strombergs with pancake air filters.
I had a really big think and a sit down and a cup of tea and decided i should restore it back to the Standard Air box with ducting pipe supplying cooler air.
Makes sense to me that this will help.
I popped over to ebay and picked one up for £25.




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Nick Jones
January 24, 2017, 1:19pm Report to Moderator

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The correct airbox will probably help a bit.  Pancake filters....... yuk!

Vaporisation and heat soak are real even if some cars are worse affected by others.  Certainly used to afflict my Vitesse when still running carbs, especially Strombergs.  The SU HIF4s I ran later were better, but they came with combined heat isolators/shields.

The main problem I had with the Strombergs was caused by the float chambers overflowing through the jet into the carb throat as the fuel warmed up and expanded.  This meant that every hot start after an interval of 5 - 60 mins was effectively a flood start - just hold the throttle fully open and wind it over 'tll it starts....  Not ideal.  Did fiddle about with float heights but never fully cured it.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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daver clasper
January 24, 2017, 1:43pm Report to Moderator
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Funny how it affects some cars and not others. Got standard unmodified, on my Viresse.  Worst it's got for me, is after idling for ages in traffic jams on blistering hot days, it some times takes a few seconds to restart.

Dave
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Pete Lewis
January 24, 2017, 2:02pm Report to Moderator

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and to get a good air flow into the air box ,, simplest is pump hose for aquatics  cheap and smooth on the inside
or
1.5" plastic sink waste pipe, but needs some cut and fettle  cold air is the king   and with std filters works with std needles just how triumph wanted    stick to the basics and you cant ever go far wrong

the stroms give approx +11bhp over the strangles solexs.  so base bhp is closer to 81 than the specified 70

always make sure air filters and gaskets dont cover any of the front face ports , it easy to forget this and fit them upside down
Pete



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1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Paula
January 24, 2017, 2:34pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
and to get a good air flow into the air box ,, simplest is pump hose for aquatics  cheap and smooth on the inside
or
1.5" plastic sink waste pipe, but needs some cut and fettle  cold air is the king   and with std filters works with std needles just how triumph wanted    stick to the basics and you cant ever go far wrong

the stroms give approx +11bhp over the strangles solexs.  so base bhp is closer to 81 than the specified 70

always make sure air filters and gaskets dont cover any of the front face ports , it easy to forget this and fit them upside down
Pete


Good stuff!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 24, 2017, 4:13pm Report to Moderator

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My first Vitesse used to suffer (occasionally) from reluctance to start after a hot soak. Tessa had no problems until after the engine rebuild, when she was useless if hot. On one occasion she ground to a halt and refused to start until I poured a cup of cold water over the fuel pump. She now has an electric pump and seems a lot better (though I've not yet tried her in hot weather). Both cars were/are standard in respect of carbs and air filters.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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JohnD
January 24, 2017, 6:16pm Report to Moderator


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Pete,
Your mod certainly better than the OE 1" corrugated tubing, but physics determines flow.

The resistance to flow in a tube is directly related to the FOURTH POWER of the radius.    In other words, double the radius of the tube and the flow increases SIXTEEN TIMES (x2x2x2x2)
From one (being generous - corrugated tube's bumpy inner means it flows less than a smooth one) to one and a half inches will increase flow by 6.5 (1.6^4).   Double that for two tubes is 13 times.

One large tube beats two of half the radius every time!  But fitting a 2" diameter tube to the standard filter might not be easy.  
Paula has open pancake filters.   A 2" tube from the side of the radiator, to pick up cool air, directed across the filters will not be ideal, but might make a difference, in cooling and in delivery of cool air to the intake.

John

PS  Paula, you will have already discovered that if you ask two Triumpheros a question, you will get at least three answers.  J.


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 24, 2017, 6:57pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Pete,
Your mod certainly better than the OE 1" corrugated tubing, but physics determines flow.

The resistance to flow in a tube is directly related to the FOURTH POWER of the radius.    In other words, double the radius of the tube and the flow increases SIXTEEN TIMES (x2x2x2x2)
From one (being generous - corrugated tube's bumpy inner means it flows less than a smooth one) to one and a half inches will increase flow by 6.5 (1.6^4).   Double that for two tubes is 13 times.

One large tube beats two of half the radius every time!  But fitting a 2" diameter tube to the standard filter might not be easy.  
Paula has open pancake filters.   A 2" tube from the side of the radiator, to pick up cool air, directed across the filters will not be ideal, but might make a difference, in cooling and in delivery of cool air to the intake.

John

PS  Paula, you will have already discovered that if you ask two Triumpheros a question, you will get at least three answers.  J.


But 2 tubes from the grill into the old airbox instead will be better than the pancakes right? If by better i mean cooler.
I like all these answers.
If i implement all of them to a certain degree it must help!
Instead of getting crafty with a tray i splashed out on these:




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Pete Lewis
January 24, 2017, 7:19pm Report to Moderator

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Can make access to the mixture adjuster a bit tight ,
a flat 12mm ring spanner will slip in easy and turn the adjuster
a ratchet ring is best

keep a look at aldi and lidl often do good value sets of spanners
and most metric will fit AF
11mm     7/16
13mm      1/2"

And so on

pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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JohnD
January 24, 2017, 8:23pm Report to Moderator


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Bootyful!
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 24, 2017, 10:18pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Bootyful!
John


£23. Pretty groovy.
I'm a little worried about removing the carbs to fit them, as i've just had them set up at my local garage and they are running sweet.
Can i just pull them off the studs and slip the heat shields in without undoing the throttle linkages?


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 24, 2017, 10:23pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
Can make access to the mixture adjuster a bit tight ,
a flat 12mm ring spanner will slip in easy and turn the adjuster
a ratchet ring is best

keep a look at aldi and lidl often do good value sets of spanners
and most metric will fit AF
11mm     7/16
13mm      1/2"

And so on

pete


Cool good to know!
I've got some nice metric ratchet spanners from Halfords. Half price! And a nice full set of AF (very shiny)
And a big hammer




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kin74
January 25, 2017, 7:33am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula

Instead of getting crafty with a tray i splashed out on these:

Those look nice and not so much expensive, but I wonder why they made two instead of a single one: shouldn't the latter stop more hot air?


Alessandro Maschi

Triumph In Italy

1964 Spitfire 4 (sold)
1966 Spitfire Mk2 (running)
1967 Vitesse 2L Convertible (sold)
1969 GT6 Mk2 (running)
1975 Spitfire 1500 (sold)
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RobPearce
January 25, 2017, 9:04am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from kin74
Those look nice and not so much expensive, but I wonder why they made two instead of a single one: shouldn't the latter stop more hot air?

The single heatshield for both carbs would only fit the 6 cylinder (and possibly only some versions of it). The independent heatshield for a single Stromberg will also fit Herald 13/60 or US Spitfire or Toledo/Dolomite 1300. It makes perfect business sense (and I doubt the difference in performance would be noticeable)


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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kin74
January 25, 2017, 10:21am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce

The single heatshield for both carbs would only fit the 6 cylinder (and possibly only some versions of it). The independent heatshield for a single Stromberg will also fit Herald 13/60 or US Spitfire or Toledo/Dolomite 1300. It makes perfect business sense (and I doubt the difference in performance would be noticeable)

Makes sense.


Alessandro Maschi

Triumph In Italy

1964 Spitfire 4 (sold)
1966 Spitfire Mk2 (running)
1967 Vitesse 2L Convertible (sold)
1969 GT6 Mk2 (running)
1975 Spitfire 1500 (sold)
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daver clasper
January 25, 2017, 6:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Paula


£23. Pretty groovy.
I'm a little worried about removing the carbs to fit them, as i've just had them set up at my local garage and they are running sweet.
Can i just pull them off the studs and slip the heat shields in without undoing the throttle linkages?

Pretty sure from memory (careful!), they will pull off like that. Maybe have to release the throttle main return spring if fitted(normally fitted to the cable bracket on the throttle spindle).


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Pete Lewis
January 25, 2017, 7:24pm Report to Moderator

Tssc Herts and Beds A.O.
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You will be pleased with those spanners years after you forgot whatbyou paid .
good tools are worth a lot

same as decent screwdrivers not a resemblance ,  be it a blade, posidrive or phillips a
decent one is made to fit , not just look like it might
same as decent pliers and side cutters they can and  will last years

keep a look out for a flexi drive with a 7mm socket end,  invaluable on hose clips

When removing the carbs just check the gasket is not torn you will need a pair of extra ones
as both sides of the heat shield needs a gasket
pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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Richard B
January 25, 2017, 7:24pm Report to Moderator

Richard Brake
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Quoted from Paula
But 2 tubes from the grill into the old airbox instead will be better than the pancakes right? If by better i mean cooler.


Triumphs (and others) run better on cool air, rather than through those 'orrible Pancakes. (Look up 'snake oil')  

Well done for getting the shields. Having the exhaust under the carbs is not good, but is what you have live with if you have a old 60's & 70's Triumph straight Six.  

Modern fuel does not help either. Bear in mind your car was designed for 4 or 5 Star (98 or 100 RON) not unleaded which is about 95. Try to run it on Super unleaded.


Surrey AO and Triumph Hoover, Location: Guildford - Surrey,
Spitfire 2.5PI - 1967 having surgery, PI Saloon - 1969 RBRR x 3, PI Estate - 1969 (to restore), Stag - 1971 RBRR x 2,
PI Saloon MkII - 1971(stalled project), Sold some cars!  

Daughters own: Herald 1500 1961, Herald 1500 Coupe 1962, Dolomite 1300 1976, Herald 13/60 Estate 1970
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Paula
January 25, 2017, 9:13pm Report to Moderator

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