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pardown
December 21, 2016, 2:00pm Report to Moderator

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Hi all
I am new to the club not having owned a Triumph since 1983 when I sold my lovely maroon TR7 to put down a deposit on my first flat.
I have recently acquired a 1969 Herald Convertible which I intend to restore as a local run around for my wife (who was also the main instigator in selling the TR7 all those years ago!!)
The car is missing its engine and gearbox and so my question is what can I fit easily that would perhaps offer a little more performance than the original.
I was thinking possibly Spitfire with overdrive gearbox might be nice. Am I correct in thinking this is a straight swap in terms of engine mounts/space etc. I would love to put in a Vitesse engine but these appear more difficult to source and may be require additional modifications?
What will the original diff take before requiring upgrading?
Are there any modern engine alternatives? I was thinking possibly K-Series. Anyone with any experience?
I will also be looking to replace the seats with something more comfortable. Is there any particular one that is the seat of choice? MX5? May be if I go down the Spitfire engine route (later model) I could also use the seats.
Any comments good or bad will be very much welcome.
Regards
Phil



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Casper
December 21, 2016, 2:39pm Report to Moderator


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A couple of threads on seats:
http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1429280338/s-0/
http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1346336351/

Your thinking is okay on engine/gearbox.  Pretty much any 4 cylinder Triumph engine, so Spit would be good, or 1500 (although there are some issues there).  Diff should be okay (strong enough) but depending on what you want you might be wise to use a 3.89 (or for a 1500, a 3.63.

K series not common.  Most of the modern conversions are Zetec.  most anything is possible.

C.


Herald Anorak
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JohnD
December 21, 2016, 2:53pm Report to Moderator


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Yes, you have to look around for a triumph six engine, but they would transform a Herald.
The 2.5 is  "awesome"!

No structural mods required.
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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pardown
December 22, 2016, 10:21am Report to Moderator

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Thanks Guys.
The seat thread is very useful.
As a six is a longer engine I am guessing it would sit differently longitudinally in order to retain the position of the gear lever. Further forward? Does this cause any problems?
It sounds like a great idea but assume brakes, suspension and possibly the chassis would require upgrading too?
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rustbuckit2011
December 22, 2016, 10:44am Report to Moderator


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Mx5 1.6
Weld some engine mounts to the main rails, shorten the remote shifter.
Nothing wild about it but bulletproof and rev happy (~110 bhp in standard tune). Triumph diff will survive. Weigh about the same as triumph lump- maybe a little lighter- so brakes are fine.
And how cool is this--



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1960 Herald Coupe Replica - mazda, datsun, and all over the garage floor
1964 Herald 1200 coupe - standard.

https://www.facebook.com/rust.buckit.94
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animator
December 22, 2016, 11:10am Report to Moderator

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I've got a 1969 13/60 convertible with the Spit 1500 engine and overdrive gearbox, all fitted in perfectly on original mounts.
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JohnD
December 22, 2016, 11:28am Report to Moderator


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Quoted from pardown
Thanks Guys.
The seat thread is very useful.
As a six is a longer engine I am guessing it would sit differently longitudinally in order to retain the position of the gear lever. Further forward? Does this cause any problems?
It sounds like a great idea but assume brakes, suspension and possibly the chassis would require upgrading too?


The six is mounted to the suspension turrets by bosses cast into the sides of the block, so cylinder No.1 is in front of, and No.2 alongside the turrets, and the gearbox in more or less he same position as in a four.   Anyway, the gear lever's position in both engines is determined by the length of the extension that puts it 18" behind the 'box itself.    I have a shortened extension among my spares, presumably from a project that positioned the engine much further back in search of equal weight distribution.      That can be done by using a saloon front plate, that mounts the engine like a four cylinder, and so about nine inches further back.   But I don't imagine you want to go that far!

The chassis is the same.     Front uprights were upgraded for the six, but only in a minor way.   Stiffer springs required, just exchange them, and a road going Herald with discs and a six engine will be adequately braked.    I don't know what propshaft a Herald has - the Vitesse/GT6 was given one with a sliding spline, instead of the Spitfire's flexible coupling, and  was given wider flanges between the shaft and the diff.     Rear suspension was basically the same, in the various evolutions.

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Davemate
December 22, 2016, 12:20pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from animator
I've got a 1969 13/60 convertible with the Spit 1500 engine and overdrive gearbox, all fitted in perfectly on original mounts.


But with a shorter propshaft,that's all the mods I needed when I fitted a 1500 and overdrive box to my herald.
Oh and a hammer to fold back about an inch of the trans tunnel so I could do the prop bolts up from topside  


Herald 1500,rallyfied- overdrive,swing spring with 1500 spit diff,440lb front springs, adjustable height spax on front and back, trunionless conversion,thicker arb,rear roll cage,harnesses,bucket seats,extra gauges,Vitesse steering wheel,genuine 5.5j smoothies wheels,4 branch manifold
Still for sale

Mk1 2000 saloon,now a 2.5   

Timing marshal CT autosolo Bovington 2011,2012,half of 2013,2014 and 2016
Marshalled Essex winter rally 2013
RBRR 2012, co driver
24th Nachtrit 2012, navigator
Chinese rally 2013, navigator
Essex winter rally 2014, navigator
HCR 2014, co driver
RBRR 2014, co driver
Essex winter rally 2014,navigator
Warwickshire winter rally 2016,driver
HCR 2016 driver
Essex winter rally 2016 navigator
Mr Radders official calm down buddy
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JohnD
December 22, 2016, 12:28pm Report to Moderator


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A Hammer?  Dear Boy, you'll be using a screwdriver as a chisel next!

The standard fitting for an O/d box is a cut back tunnel, with a curved cover that self-tapper-screws in place.
Easily done!

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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ferny
December 22, 2016, 1:16pm Report to Moderator

Mr Hoppy!
Club Officer
Club member
Posts: 10,685
Posts Per Day: 2.59
Quoted from rustbuckit2011
Triumph diff will survive.


No, it doesn't!


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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Davemate
December 22, 2016, 3:33pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from JohnD
A Hammer?  Dear Boy, you'll be using a screwdriver as a chisel next!

The standard fitting for an O/d box is a cut back tunnel, with a curved cover that self-tapper-screws in place.
Easily done!

John


I just hammered back an inch or so, the cardboard tunnel still covers over the hammered back edge

As for useing a screwdriver as a chisel :- yep guilty as charged  
I've used a chisel as a screwdriver in the past as well  
Cut the hole - insert lock - do screws up, one tool does all  


Herald 1500,rallyfied- overdrive,swing spring with 1500 spit diff,440lb front springs, adjustable height spax on front and back, trunionless conversion,thicker arb,rear roll cage,harnesses,bucket seats,extra gauges,Vitesse steering wheel,genuine 5.5j smoothies wheels,4 branch manifold
Still for sale

Mk1 2000 saloon,now a 2.5   

Timing marshal CT autosolo Bovington 2011,2012,half of 2013,2014 and 2016
Marshalled Essex winter rally 2013
RBRR 2012, co driver
24th Nachtrit 2012, navigator
Chinese rally 2013, navigator
Essex winter rally 2014, navigator
HCR 2014, co driver
RBRR 2014, co driver
Essex winter rally 2014,navigator
Warwickshire winter rally 2016,driver
HCR 2016 driver
Essex winter rally 2016 navigator
Mr Radders official calm down buddy
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pardown
December 23, 2016, 8:56am Report to Moderator

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Thinking about all the advice my current thoughts are......

Spitfire - nice neat solution. Easier to source than a Six but any engine gearbox will likely require rebuilding which is not a problem but additional cost.
Six - again nice original type of solution but difficult to source and as above will require (more) expensive rebuild.
K Series - big fan of a K series engine. Plenty around but conversion to rear wheel drive would be expensive and a gearbox (type 9?)would have to be sourced/rebuilt too.
MX5 - Big fan of the MX5 too. Plenty around and already rear wheel drive. Sweet gearbox. Seats included! Could be the most economic solution. Ferny comments - need to change the diff? Is this from experience? Is the answer to switch to a GT6/Vitesse or is there a better option?

Thanks again.
Phil
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pardown
December 23, 2016, 9:04am Report to Moderator

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......oh I nearly forgot.

Shortening the remote shifter has been mentioned a few times.
Is this a DIY job? I don't have one to look at but are they not generally in a cast alloy casing?
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ferny
December 23, 2016, 10:10am Report to Moderator

Mr Hoppy!
Club Officer
Club member
Posts: 10,685
Posts Per Day: 2.59
Quoted from pardown

MX5 - Big fan of the MX5 too. Plenty around and already rear wheel drive. Sweet gearbox. Seats included! Could be the most economic solution. Ferny comments - need to change the diff? Is this from experience? Is the answer to switch to a GT6/Vitesse or is there a better option?



Yes.

https://youtu.be/TIyk0F093VY

That's mine against George's rather special race GT6. It's fitted with a stronger 3.63 and I wasn't launching it otherwise it would die. The year before it had a 4.11 and again I was only rolling off the line before gently putting my foot down. That did enough damage to kill it in 4th gear at 20mph (luckily) 100 feet from my home.


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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rustbuckit2011
December 23, 2016, 10:17am Report to Moderator


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The shifter shorten is a diy job. Ill put a thread on it in the tech section one day. It is seriously easy- no welding, just 2 cuts, one hole and a bit of spannering.

The mx5 runs the same diff ratio as the herald (4.11) so your speedo will still read true. You will have to jimmy up a cable made from the mazda to herald ends.

I was under the impression that the 13/60 diffs were essentially as strong as the vitesse units, just a different ratio- having said that- I have a Subaru diff so I guess Im just guessing! The vitesse has 159 N.M of torque, the mazda 136 N.M-  torque and weight kill diffs- your car should be lighter and have less torque. Maybe just try to hold back on the burnouts if you can...

Edit-- sorry Ferny you posted while i was typing- logic is no substitute for experience - I'll stand corrected on the diff!


1960 Herald Coupe Replica - mazda, datsun, and all over the garage floor
1964 Herald 1200 coupe - standard.

https://www.facebook.com/rust.buckit.94
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