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Triumph Torque    Cars    Herald/Vitesse  ›  Taking the Diff out without removing drive shafts
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Taking the Diff out without removing drive shafts Print
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mazfg
October 19, 2016, 7:51am Report to Moderator


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I'm about to take my Diff out. The propshaft is out and I removed the nuts n bolts attaching the driveshafts to the Diff. Is there an easy way to get the diff out without having to remove the driveshafts/ hub complete? They're still up against the diff flanges, but have moved down since I lowered the car again.


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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glang
October 19, 2016, 7:58am Report to Moderator

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on my mk1 Vit I do what youve done then remove a small cover plate in the boot to undo the leaf spring holding plate bolts. Lastly theres the actual diff holding bolts to take out (two at the front and a long cross bolt at the rear) and gently lower the unit out of place. It weighs a fair bit so I do this last bit on a trolley jack and obviously you need to have the car jacked up high to improve access.
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mazfg
October 19, 2016, 8:04am Report to Moderator


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Thanks for that. My only concern is that the flanges on the driveshafts are still up against the flanges of the diff..but have slipped a bit..but can't see how to seperate them enough for the diff to drop down. I'll probably be removing the drivehsafts/ hub at some point anyway as I'd like to renew the UJ's. In the mean time though I rathe the car sat on 4 wheels rather than axle stands...


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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glang
October 19, 2016, 8:08am Report to Moderator

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you should be able to just lever the flanges apart or once you undo the spring they separate automatically. However then the spring is free and the car shouldnt be lowered back onto its rear wheels as there wont be any suspension support.....
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mazfg
October 19, 2016, 8:19am Report to Moderator


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The spring is still attached to the vertical link. The flanges are still togetehr but have slipped sideways slightly as I had to push the car forward.

The top ,mounting for the diff shows 6 studs. In the manual it says just removed the rear 3 studs? Do all six studs have to be removed though or just the nyloc nuts. I'm guessing it'll be easier if all studs(6) have been removed? rather than pushing studs through the spring plate?


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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cliftyhanger
October 19, 2016, 8:33am Report to Moderator

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You can lift the spring plate off. But you still have to remove the rear studs, and easier if they are all out. And yes, lever the shafts out of the way.
I have done a few diff swaps, but to be fair mainly late spitfire rear suspension in the last 10 years. So my memory may be shonky.

However, if you intend taking the shafts off, you might as well do it now. Don't forget to check the rear trunnions are all fee and move easily....


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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glang
October 19, 2016, 8:35am Report to Moderator

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I suppose it might be done with only the 3 rear studs removed as the diff has to be lowered at the front and then slid forward to take it out however you'll definitely have to undo the other nuts to take off the plate so probably easiest to unscrew all of em. Once released the spring is free to move upwards as far as the boot floor so allowing movement of the vertical links - you might have to jiggle the wheels a bit but the flanges should separate easily.
As you say while its apart you might as well do everything including the vertical link suspension bushes if they havent already been done...
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mazfg
October 19, 2016, 9:15am Report to Moderator


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Ah, yes I see that now looking at a picture of the spring plate. Only the back studs removed as the front ones will move out through the front of the spring.  Thinking it maybe best to just remove driveshafts complete and then diff and be done with it
Vertical link bushes were poly bushed about 4 years ago


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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mazfg
October 19, 2016, 9:21am Report to Moderator


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So, once the spring plate and diff is off and the vertical links removed from the spring eye bolt...can I withdraw the spring from the car?


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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RobPearce
October 19, 2016, 9:29am Report to Moderator

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Yes, once you've removed the spring plate and disconnected both vertical links, there's nothing attaching the spring any more and you should be able to slide it out.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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glang
October 19, 2016, 10:00am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from mazfg
Ah, yes I see that now looking at a picture of the spring plate. Only the back studs removed as the front ones will move out through the front of the spring.  Thinking it maybe best to just remove driveshafts complete and then diff and be done with it
Vertical link bushes were poly bushed about 4 years ago


I didnt know there were poly bushes available for the trunion pivots - I'll look for them next time mine need doing! Looks like your job is expanding and it might have been easier just to drop the whole back axle out (disconnect brakes, trailing arms, dampers and diff)....
What are you doing on the diff?
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mazfg
October 19, 2016, 10:11am Report to Moderator


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Quoted from glang


I didnt know there were poly bushes available for the trunion pivots - I'll look for them next time mine need doing! Looks like your job is expanding and it might have been easier just to drop the whole back axle out (disconnect brakes, trailing arms, dampers and diff)....
What are you doing on the diff?


http://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/parts.aspx?searchtext=514370P

Don;'t think you can drop the whole thing out...the chassis is in the way

The driveshaft seals need replacing and I'm going to get a drain plug fitted too and also given the once over.


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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glang
October 19, 2016, 10:26am Report to Moderator

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of course youre right! Well it was a while ago I looked under there
Not thinking about a 3.63 diff then?
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heraldcoupe
October 19, 2016, 11:20am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from glang
I didnt know there were poly bushes available for the trunion pivots - I'll look for them next time mine need doing!


I have to wonder why anyone makes polyurethane trunnion bushes. Are they a rigid compound to match the original nylon bushes? Or are they a softer compound like the other bushes, which would offer less precise location of the axles?

I know there are quality problems with some of the available trunnion bushes, but even the good ones cost a fraction of the polyurethane type. One aspect of these cars which needs no redesign whatsoever,

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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Nick Jones
October 19, 2016, 12:08pm Report to Moderator

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Agree Bill - quality issues aside.  The (superflex) polybushes I've seen are very hard - much like the original nylon ones but have stainless crush tubes and no water shields.  They are slightly thicker in the flange section that the OE ones to compensate for the absence of water shields.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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ferny
October 19, 2016, 3:44pm Report to Moderator

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You can get the diff out with only the spring studs on the diff and halfshaft and propshaft bolts out. Push against the bottom of tge wheel and the shaft flange will move away from the diff.

Getting it back in isn't easy though, as you're pushing up against the spring as the diff goes it. It can be done.


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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heraldcoupe
October 19, 2016, 9:18pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
They are slightly thicker in the flange section that the OE ones to compensate for the absence of water shields.


Sounds like they've patterned them on the early bushes, before the water shields were introduced in the mid 1960s.

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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mazfg
October 20, 2016, 9:10am Report to Moderator


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It mentions removing exhaust too...is this definitely necessary


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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cliftyhanger
October 20, 2016, 9:13am Report to Moderator

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I can't see how you can drop the diff without taking the exhaust off. It runs right under the diff....


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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mazfg
October 20, 2016, 9:19am Report to Moderator


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Quoted from cliftyhanger
I can't see how you can drop the diff without taking the exhaust off. It runs right under the diff....


Mine not right under the diff..it's to the side of it but just under


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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cliftyhanger
October 20, 2016, 9:26am Report to Moderator

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It should have a hanger off the diff. As you need to drop the nose of the diff down several inches on a tilt, I can't see how you will get the diff out with the exhaust there.


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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glang
October 20, 2016, 9:38am Report to Moderator

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My stainless (thin wall?) exhaust allows quite a bit of movement - if I undo the rear hanger (its only fixing) it can be moved down and quite well out of the way but of course does need supporting. This obviously isnt ideal but I can understand why you dont want to remove the pipe completely and I think I would probably do the same...
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mazfg
November 1, 2016, 4:05pm Report to Moderator


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So, the Diff's out and the drive shaft and the spring.  ( I removed the exhaust in the end )



Now I think I might as well do the bearings on the half shafts and the leaf spring is looking a bit cruddy too.
Any advice on cleaning that up..not sure I want to actually take it all apart..just a wire brush up??? Should I give it a coat of dinitrol too?

I've now also removed the UJ's...that was a pig...no tapping them out..had to use the vice to push them out...solidly fixed in there!! The N/S was definitely worn and probably the cause of the slight noise I could hear.

The N/S drum also binds..wondering if this is a little on the oval in shape...?  


Current: Triumph Vitesse 6 convertible with O/D 1964

21 Years ago...and my first car! : Triumph Herald 1200 Saloon/ Tristan conversion 1966
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glang
November 1, 2016, 4:29pm Report to Moderator

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Dont know about Dinitrol its really lubrication you want so I think working a thick grease into the leaves as much as possible and coating the whole thing is the best you can do with it.
If the drum binds and then releases as you spin it then its definitely oval which is not unusual over time and heat with cast iron. Mine were the same so I took em to a local engineering shop who skimmed the braking surfaces on a lathe for 25quid the pair. The improvement was 100% but they did say it was a difficult job to do perfectly without the specialised equipment.
Looks like your jobs are multiplying but thats always the way  
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Triumph Torque    Cars    Herald/Vitesse  ›  Taking the Diff out without removing drive shafts

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