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heraldcoupe
May 24, 2017, 9:10pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
there doesnt seem any real clues why these rear ends go wide at the of of the b post wings
everything from door closing loads to tow bars  boot loads and urban myths


I don't think it's any great mystery. Cars built up to the beginning of 1963 are far less inclined to tub spread than later cars. The primary difference in these cars is the supports between the chassis and the front edge of the boot floor. Originally a feature of the Mk1 chassis, they continued on early examples of the Mk2 in conjunction with the newly introduced body mountings above the diff. By early 1963 the front boot floor mounts were deemed unnecessary and deleted. A mistake as far as those of us owning these cars 54 years later are concerned, but doubtless reasonable to the beancounters of the time.
There's no real doubt that overloading the boot is a big contributor, often exacerbated by weakness in the boot riggers through rust.

What's rarely mentioned with regards to tub spread is that as the B-posts spread, the boot aperture closes slightly, bringing problems of clearance between the bootlid and the inner faces of the rear fins, in particular the stainless trims around the lights. Though it's not so easily measured, I'll venture there is a difference in the dimensions between boot floor and rear deck as well. It's much more difficult to remove or install the fuel tank on some examples than it is on others, which should be a clue,

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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Matt306
May 31, 2017, 7:29am Report to Moderator

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Thanks Bill. Interesting thought, perhaps a mod of placing the supports back in would help.


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MDofTW
May 31, 2017, 8:30pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis


there doesnt seem any real clues why these rear ends go wide at the of of the b post wings
everything from door closing loads to tow bars  boot loads and urban myths

pete


Yes, not sure I've gotten these quoty things nailed yet either.

Anyway, reason for post is to apologise if anyone ever saw SPK 267F and wondered why she had tub spread.

Answer, as an 9 year old, I used to fill the poor thing's boot up with (small - well I was only 9), but many, flagstones, drive it (yes, sorry, I was brought up on a farm, and drove anything from that sort of age) diagonally with one front wheel up a bank, and then - to prove to my big bro (so it's all this fault!) how strong I was,  lift the 'dangling' front wheel (already at the end of its suspension travel) off the ground.  Aaaaah, can you imagine the stresses on that poor chassis. And it was a convertible too. I feel so guilty!

Bad person! Still, big bro, not me, wrote the old girl off some years later...I cried for hours when I heard!

Interestingly, Somerset Nick has SPK 263F.
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Nick Jones
May 31, 2017, 9:13pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from MDofTW


Anyway, reason for post is to apologise if anyone ever saw SPK 267F and wondered why she had tub spread.


Interestingly, Somerset Nick has SPK 263F.


Yeah, I noticed the closeness.  SPK263F was born a valencia blue saloon and I bought it from a school teacher in Harrow in 1988 resprayed red and pretty comprehensively knackered.....  Very much Triggers broom now.

Don't think it has tub spread though, measures 46" from door seal lip to door seal lip, just below the b-post cappings.  Which doesn't seem to explain why the doors are a fairly crap fit.

I once hauled a complete 2000 saloon engine home in the boot of my Herald 1200.  The boot even closed.....  It was very low and negative camber at the back and the steering rather light...... Had to drive around like that for a couple of days until I could round up enough labour to get it out again.  The spring never recovered completely (who needs lowering blocks!) but I don't recall the door fit changing.  Two days probably wasn't long enough - good thing too!

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

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heraldcoupe
June 2, 2017, 8:41am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Matt306
Thanks Bill. Interesting thought, perhaps a mod of placing the supports back in would help.


It's certainly a path I am following with some of my Mk2 projects. Those late-1962 cars with both boot floor and over-diff body mounts are arguably the strongest of the lot and something to be emulated,

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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Nick Jones
June 2, 2017, 9:16am Report to Moderator

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I would definitely do this as part of a restoration and it would actually be perfectly possible to do on a complete car.

Is there a definitive figure for the dimension across the B-pillars (including reference points!)?

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Pete Lewis
June 2, 2017, 8:58pm Report to Moderator

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I Dont know of any body dimensions unless you get hold of some triumph body in white   drawings
Guess there will  be some somewhere

wsm and body fitting manuals dont show anything the 46.5 " is approx and Evolved from trial and error on odd cars  showing spread and subsequent pulling in.

its not definitive

pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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PeteH
August 10, 2017, 2:18pm Report to Moderator

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Hi

Any confirmation that the "objective" dimension is 46.5"?. Measured mine just now (its off the car and stacked on it`s side) in that orientation it measures 46" across the Door seal edges?.

Pete.
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Pete Lewis
August 10, 2017, 2:30pm Report to Moderator

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really its pull the  B post /wing tops in until the doors dont stick out at the bottom  you have to over pull as it springs back....quite a lot ......with all the wide tolerances and 50 year old wonky body and chassis   who knows

its pull till its looking good   46 or 46.5"   is all from trial and error ,   some might be 45.5 some 47  its what suits the eye
not the tape measure
think you are trying to be  a little too accurate

Pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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ahebron
August 29, 2017, 3:40am Report to Moderator


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Finally got around to fitting my door locks on the weekend and discovered a bit of tub spread on the right side.
This meant I was finally able to use my tub spread rig with a 4 ton portapower.
This rig can either pull or push the body and does it with remarkable ease.
It also means each side can be adjusted easily and with out affecting the other side.



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Eastern shore of Te Whanganui-a-Tara

Vitesse 6 (owned since 1982, driven for 6 months a long time ago)
Vitesse Mk11 Conv (owned since 1992, never driven but the first Vitesse I looked at buying back in early 1982)
2000 BMW R1150 GS
2003 FFRR TD6 HSE
2014 VW Amarok Highline 4Motion
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ahebron
August 29, 2017, 3:41am Report to Moderator


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The following posts will have a bit more detail
This is the mount over the tunnel using the seatbelt bolt holes



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Eastern shore of Te Whanganui-a-Tara

Vitesse 6 (owned since 1982, driven for 6 months a long time ago)
Vitesse Mk11 Conv (owned since 1992, never driven but the first Vitesse I looked at buying back in early 1982)
2000 BMW R1150 GS
2003 FFRR TD6 HSE
2014 VW Amarok Highline 4Motion
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ahebron
August 29, 2017, 3:42am Report to Moderator


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This is the handbrake pin brace to stop the tower rotating.
I turned a couple of stepped spacers for the large pivot hole and packed the other side of the brace with washers to make everything snug.



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Eastern shore of Te Whanganui-a-Tara

Vitesse 6 (owned since 1982, driven for 6 months a long time ago)
Vitesse Mk11 Conv (owned since 1992, never driven but the first Vitesse I looked at buying back in early 1982)
2000 BMW R1150 GS
2003 FFRR TD6 HSE
2014 VW Amarok Highline 4Motion
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ahebron
August 29, 2017, 3:45am Report to Moderator


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This is the rig bolted to the plate the door latch uses, the seatbelt bolt hole and the bolt hole for the top of the B pillar.
When I come to work on my Mk2 Convertible I will have to modify it but the basics are all in place.



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Eastern shore of Te Whanganui-a-Tara

Vitesse 6 (owned since 1982, driven for 6 months a long time ago)
Vitesse Mk11 Conv (owned since 1992, never driven but the first Vitesse I looked at buying back in early 1982)
2000 BMW R1150 GS
2003 FFRR TD6 HSE
2014 VW Amarok Highline 4Motion
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ahebron
August 29, 2017, 3:45am Report to Moderator


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The pin detail on the tower with the puller attached



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Eastern shore of Te Whanganui-a-Tara

Vitesse 6 (owned since 1982, driven for 6 months a long time ago)
Vitesse Mk11 Conv (owned since 1992, never driven but the first Vitesse I looked at buying back in early 1982)
2000 BMW R1150 GS
2003 FFRR TD6 HSE
2014 VW Amarok Highline 4Motion
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ahebron
August 29, 2017, 3:47am Report to Moderator


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And the one on the door pillar



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Eastern shore of Te Whanganui-a-Tara

Vitesse 6 (owned since 1982, driven for 6 months a long time ago)
Vitesse Mk11 Conv (owned since 1992, never driven but the first Vitesse I looked at buying back in early 1982)
2000 BMW R1150 GS
2003 FFRR TD6 HSE
2014 VW Amarok Highline 4Motion
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