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CV CONVERSION - WORTH IT ?? Print
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heralddolly
January 17, 2011, 7:04pm Report to Moderator

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Hello folks.

I have a Mk2 Vitesse.

The CV Conversion Kit - is it worth it financially   and is it a worth while upgrade / improvement   ??

Opinions & experience welcome.

Thanks.

Richard.


Richard

1971 Triumph Vitesse Mk2 - CV

1967 Sunbeam Alpine Series 5 - CV


After all is said and done - there's usually a lot more said than done�� !!!
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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2011, 7:25pm Report to Moderator

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Yes and yes.  If I had a MKll Vitesse or any other Rotoflex equipped car such as GT6 I would do it.  No hesitation.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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TR7th Heaven
January 17, 2011, 7:31pm Report to Moderator


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It's a such lot of money!
I have a 1970 Vitesse with Rotoflex and it isn't worth shelling out the cash. Rotoflex really isn't that bad. With the kind of mileage I'm doing (3500 miles a year) I can't justify the expense of switching. I expect there to be several years motoring between Rotoflex coupling changes!
TTC  


Bootiful Norfolk  
1972 Triumph Spitfire MKIV

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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2011, 7:42pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TR7th Heaven
It's a such lot of money!
I have a 1970 Vitesse with Rotoflex and it isn't worth shelling out the cash. Rotoflex really isn't that bad. With the kind of mileage I'm doing (3500 miles a year) I can't justify the expense of switching. I expect there to be several years motoring between Rotoflex coupling changes!
TTC  


Not just the dreaded couplings though is it?  Got the UJs to consider!

M.



Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Steve P
January 17, 2011, 7:51pm Report to Moderator
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I`ll be doing the CV conversion on my 2.5 Vitesse soon,its a MK 1 so a little more involved.
I don`t fancy losing a wheel complete with shaft and hub attached.
Steve


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
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TR7th Heaven
January 17, 2011, 8:05pm Report to Moderator


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Mmmm, this is interesting.
Don't get me wrong. If they could be replaced for 50 a side then I'd be first in the queue but we're talking hundreds. Even allowing for changing the UJs there's still no comparison price wise (although I appreciate the amount of work involved).
However, what's interesting is Steve P's comment about losing a wheel. Has anyone heard of this happening? I understand it's possible but you'd have to let the couplings get into a terrible state for them to break up in such a devastating way. Wouldn't you?
TTC  


Bootiful Norfolk  
1972 Triumph Spitfire MKIV

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Hugh
January 17, 2011, 8:21pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Mark Hammond


Not just the dreaded couplings though is it?  Got the UJs to consider!

M.

Well I am happy that I kept the rotoflex system and unless you are going for loads of extra power and racing it save your money and spend it on other goodies.  Strange how a lot of people who do not have rotoflex advise getting rid of it  

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Steve P
January 17, 2011, 8:37pm Report to Moderator
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I`m not so much worried about the couplings going but shearing the driveshaft,i have seen this happen a couple of times including the Spitfire ADU 1B at Prescott a couple of years ago.
Because on my MK1 Vitesse the shaft is part of the suspension effectively and i will be running a tuned 2.5 i dont trust it to take the extra torque.
Steve


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
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Nick Jones
January 17, 2011, 8:42pm Report to Moderator

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Depends..... If you use the car alot and use it hard the CVs are fit and forget with no weedy UJ to wear out or roto to fall to bits.  The other big factor is whether you can get decent quality rotoflex couplings.  The real ones, made by Trelleborg now are pretty good and last well.  They are hard to find and can be very expensive.  The others..... well I got fed up with changing them every couple of years and that's why my car has CVs now.  Changing rotos is not a nice job.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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tiggrr1
January 17, 2011, 9:22pm Report to Moderator

Steve Thompson
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I was struggling to get proper Rotoflex coupling's and didn't want to fit the cheaper ones that as far as I know won't last too long

So I got the bits from Nick to convert to CV setup about 2 years ago, never touched the rear of the car since

I'd recommend them as a fit and forget upgrade. ( there is a bit on them in my blog, details below )


My infrequently updated Blog http://gtsixing.blogspot.com/
                                                                                                                                           



Useful GT6 Stuff -----  http://sdrv.ms/1bXwKRr


1971 Triumph GT6 MKIII  - Team Shorts  

2000 Subaru Impreza P1 335 bhp

2009 Alfa Mito 1.6 JTDM



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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2011, 9:38pm Report to Moderator

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It's the fit and forget aspect that I like.  Nothing wrong with Rotoflex it's just that the CV conversion is superior.  Saying that, if you're looking for originality than stick with Rotoflex.
I have not so fond memories of a coupling letting go at speed.  Horrible to change too!


M.


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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peter.crow
January 17, 2011, 9:40pm Report to Moderator
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I have the conversion on my Mk2 saloon.

Made the decision to have the CV conversion done as part of purchase arrangements. The independent engineer's report picked up some noises in the rear end which were isolated to rotoflex rings (degrading?) and also UJs. Went the whole hog by replacing the UJs on the prop shaft and also fitting the Canleys CV conversion kit complete. Everything is so tight, so responsive and so easy to drive.

As others have said, a fit and forget conversion.

-prc.
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CharlieB
January 17, 2011, 10:52pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Steve P
...shearing the driveshaft,i have seen this happen a couple of times including the Spitfire ADU 1B at Prescott a couple of years ago.

That's a swing axle car, not heard of rotoflex driveshafts shearing. (The OP is asking about changing roto to cv)


1975 Spit 1500 BRG
Ruislip
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mk2vitesses
January 18, 2011, 12:15am Report to Moderator

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You don't have to shell out on a Canley conversion, buy the bits and do it yourself for less.
There is a PDF with all the engineering data on the web.
I have the earlier Saloon drive shaft conversion on my car (now owned for the last 16 years), this was after two sets of Rotoflex had been fitted and yes the rear geometry was correct!
The Saloon conversion works great, the ONLY drawback is it still uses the taper bearings in the vertical link.
The CV conversion gets rid of all the horrid bits once and for all!
These cars were built to a price, but you dont have to put up with poor engineering anymore!!


Car on the road having been rebuilt, with Quaife ATB 3.63 diff, Toyota W58 gearbox, Electronic speedo, Saloon drive shaft conversion, blueprinted 2.5L engine, Kingston sports car (TLD) head & cam, alloy flywheel, electronic engine management system, wasted spark ignition, HID headlights, MX5 seats, galvanized chassis, dual circuit brakes with Wilwood fronts, disc brakes to go on the rear!

Location Essex
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Steve P
January 18, 2011, 7:46am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from CharlieB
That's a swing axle car, not heard of rotoflex driveshafts shearing. (The OP is asking about changing roto to cv)

As i said mine is a MK 1 so it is a swing axle.
Steve


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
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timbancroft61
January 18, 2011, 8:30am Report to Moderator

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I can only state from my experiences of fitting the first set of Canleys CVs shafts to my GT6 and must state that it has been one of the best things I have done to the car in 27 years.

Since fitting I have done about 12 Autosolos, loads of track days and apart from a outer CV boot falling apart on the 2010 RBRR I have not had an issue. (Well, apart from the first shafts being slightly too small, resulting in a shaft popping out of the outer CV pot-all sorted FOC by Canleys)

As also stated above they do change the nature of a R'flex car, for the better I'd say. I used to quite like the rotoflex couplings as they do protect the UJ, however as stated above the cost and trouble of finding a pair of proper Stanpart/BL spec couplings makes the use difficult.

The other bonus with these CV units is that one can strip the suspension down very quickly-no pushing against the doughnut! Also, if one is taking the diff out, the driveshafts can be swung out of the way.

Anyone baulking at the cost, have a look at Nick Jones set up. However when one thinks about the costs of new parts for moderns, I do not think the cost of the Canley set up is bad at all.



Club Triumph Round Britain Reliability Run (Part of the organising team, what a team)!
RBRR is the best car event in the UK, not probably, it is!

1970 GT6 Mk.2: Royal Blue 6 RBRRs (98, 00,02,04,06 & 10), 2 10CRs (03 & 07). 2 HCRs 1 LCC, lots of Autosolos and numerous track days. Bought in 1983, crikey where did the time go! Now running the Roy Lacey cooling system!

1969 2.5Pi Mk.1: Slate Grey 3 10CRs (05,09 & 15), 3 RBRRs (08, 12 & 16), 3 HCRs, 2 LCCs. A few alloy panels, does need the pi kit fitting. Bought April '04. Needs paint! Just fitted some new 7J Minilites-not copies!

1967 Spitfire mk2: Wedgewood Blue. Bought November 2010. Almost seems civilised. Car has done a RBRR (Dave Picton 2010). Blimey, could be on the road soon!
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davidcourier
January 18, 2011, 7:34pm Report to Moderator


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I've also done the conversion, it's a lot of money though.. you start with buying the shafts... and the new wheel bearings, and then you need to shim the whole thing out.
Must say it drives really nice, feels far more solid then the rotoflex setup.

Although you'll probably have the best of the conversion  if you also fit some better shocks, front springs and poly bushes on the car


Triumph Herald Coupe 1964 (Rally car twin tanks, stage 3 GT6 engine and brakes roll cage etc.)
Jaguar MK2 4.2 triple SU E-type engine
Triumph Herald 1200 Convertible 1966
Triumph Spitfire MKIV 1972
Commer PB Autosleeper
Audi A4 2.8 quattro Avant
Volvo V50
"If you limit your choices only to what seems possible or reasonable, you disconnect yourself from what you truly want, and all that is left is a compromise.

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Mark Hammond
January 18, 2011, 8:36pm Report to Moderator

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Or if you want a rarity try and find an SAH Tite-a Turn conversion.  A mate of mine had this on a Vitesse MK l Covertible in the mid '70s.  Best handling MK l I ever drove!

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Nick Jones
January 18, 2011, 11:02pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark Hammond
Or if you want a rarity try and find an SAH Tite-a Turn conversion.  A mate of mine had this on a Vitesse MK l Covertible in the mid '70s.  Best handling MK l I ever drove!

Mark


I had a pair of those.  Never dared put them on a car though.  Desperately poorly engineered - puts cornering loads into a standard swing axle bearing arrangement and does not compress the (Imp sized) rotoflexes resulting in very short life (acc. to the guy I got them from).

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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ferny
January 19, 2011, 8:52am Report to Moderator

Mr Hoppy!
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Also makes the bottom of the car lower (because it hangs beneath the diff)? Not a good thing!


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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Slimboyfat
January 19, 2011, 9:02am Report to Moderator

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Steer clear of Tit-A-Turd.

Every car I have ever worked on with it fitted going back 30 odd years needed major work to put it right.

Most kit's were so badly worn (or broken) that they got converted to something else and the SAH rubbish got thrown in the bin.

I still have a couple of sets here in our black museum.


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Slimboyfat
January 19, 2011, 9:10am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ferny
Also makes the bottom of the car lower (because it hangs beneath the diff)? Not a good thing!


Are you thinking of camber compensator?


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ferny
January 19, 2011, 1:34pm Report to Moderator

Mr Hoppy!
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I do believe I am.  


Acclaim - fully working and on the road
13/60 Herald - mx5 powered and other such fun things, legal enough...
Mk1 2000 - it's still alive, just sleeping
Expert 815d - the slug

If in doubt, do up until you hear the crack and then go another 1/4 turn to ensure tightness.
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heralddolly
January 22, 2011, 1:54pm Report to Moderator

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Gents.

Thanks for all the above advice and opinions.

My doughnuts are still in good fettle at the moment, so will run them for this year and convert end of 2011.

Despite the cost, it's the way forward.

Regards.

Richard.


Richard

1971 Triumph Vitesse Mk2 - CV

1967 Sunbeam Alpine Series 5 - CV


After all is said and done - there's usually a lot more said than done�� !!!
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Jon Boy
December 9, 2016, 4:03am Report to Moderator


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Hello,

I have just joined this forum and have been researching the Rotoflex - CV joint conversion for my 71 GT6 restoration.  You indicated that you used the Canley units in the past and found that the original set had undersized shafts.  I believe I have the same issue.

Here is a post I placed on the Triumph Experience Blog yesterday....

Quoted Text
Greetings from the great white north (Canada in winter). Winnipeg to be precise.

I've been researching this conversion and reading alot to make sure I'm clear on the issues and options available.

I'm just getting into this conversion using a set of Rimmer (Canley?) CV units. I've run into a snag where the CV shaft does not create an interference fit up with the hub. My measurements indicate the problem is with the CV units.

The measurements are as follows: CV shaft dia. - 1.0225", Hub ID 1.0245". This indicates a .002 thou loose fit.
Incidentally, the original Rotoflex shafts measure between 1.0265 - 1.0275" on four units I have. A 3 to 5 thou interference.

I have contacted Rimmer and they have checked with their source who claim that this has not been a problem in 16 years of supplying these CV units. Still looking for answers.

Would anyone care to comment? Go gentle on me. I'm new to the group.


Rimmer has just offered a Goodwill refund but I still need the CV units with the correct diameter shaft.  Would you know the correct specs?

Any advice is much appreciated.

Cheers,

Jon

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Nick Jones
December 9, 2016, 9:30am Report to Moderator

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Not the same issue I don't think.

In the very early days of the Canleys CV conversion I think there was an issue with the driveshaft bars being slightly too short.  This meant that under extremes of suspension travel (on some cars only, possibly dependent on what dampers were fitted) the bars could pop out of the splines in the CVs causing loss of drive.

Was promptly sorted by Canleys.

What you describe (as discussed on the TE forum) is that the shoulder on the outer CV is a clearance fit inside the hub rather than an interference fit as on the original shafts.  As you seem to be saying that your original shafts are still an interference this must mean that the shoulder on the CVs is undersize.

While it's perfectly possible to assemble them like this, the concern is (for me) that the original design of the assembly needs a degree of interference fit to support the thin-walled spigot at the inner end of the hub and the bearing that sits on it. Without this support the spigot may flex and break or the bearing spin on it.

From the pics you put on the TE thread, the shafts are the CC ones, so I'd suggest getting in touch directly with Dave Pearson at Canleys, aka Slimboyfat earlier (much earlier in time!) in this thread.

If there are dimensional issues with a batch of CVs then he needs to know.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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timbancroft61
December 9, 2016, 11:27am Report to Moderator

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Adding to what Nick has just written.

The set that I fitted to my car were the first set that Canleys had made and the length of the shaft was slightly too short. Dave P thought as my car was used a lot it would be a good test bed for the shafts. Once the new shafts were fitted, all good. They have now been on the car for years and are still in remarkably good condition. Checked them the other week they looked and felt fine.

Seriously much better that rotoflex couplings.

As to concerns when a r'flex coupling breaks, I have only had one go and it did take out the inner shaft.


Club Triumph Round Britain Reliability Run (Part of the organising team, what a team)!
RBRR is the best car event in the UK, not probably, it is!

1970 GT6 Mk.2: Royal Blue 6 RBRRs (98, 00,02,04,06 & 10), 2 10CRs (03 & 07). 2 HCRs 1 LCC, lots of Autosolos and numerous track days. Bought in 1983, crikey where did the time go! Now running the Roy Lacey cooling system!

1969 2.5Pi Mk.1: Slate Grey 3 10CRs (05,09 & 15), 3 RBRRs (08, 12 & 16), 3 HCRs, 2 LCCs. A few alloy panels, does need the pi kit fitting. Bought April '04. Needs paint! Just fitted some new 7J Minilites-not copies!

1967 Spitfire mk2: Wedgewood Blue. Bought November 2010. Almost seems civilised. Car has done a RBRR (Dave Picton 2010). Blimey, could be on the road soon!
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Jon Boy
December 9, 2016, 4:27pm Report to Moderator


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Thanks for the quick responses gents.  WOW.

My original hubs from a rotoflex set up were badly worn and clearly had spun for a while.  This while having press-fit axles.   I've since purchased some new hubs pulled off another rotoflex set I bought and I don't plan on going through the expense of CV conversion without having a nice press fit at the outset.  

Does anyone know the spec diameter of the CV axle?  I haven't been able to get an answer from Rimmer thus far. And they are not guaranteeing a replacement set that will match my hubs.  

Sorry if I sound like I'm venting...

Planning on returning the units (shipping over seas) today and hope for the best.

Merry Christmas to all.

Jon
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Nick Jones
December 9, 2016, 5:15pm Report to Moderator

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The CVs should measure the same as your original shafts.  They are from the 1500 FWD saloon which has exactly the same bearing arrangement on the front as the GT6/Vitesse rotoflex cars have on the rear.  Hence the reason CC uses them.

As I said, you need to contact Dave Pearson at Canley Classics as he is the creator of this design and will have supplied them to Rimmers.  Your problem is not one I've ever come across before and there are lots of these conversions in service now.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Jon Boy
December 9, 2016, 5:40pm Report to Moderator


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Thanks again Nick!  Your information is reassuring.  I have attempted to contact Dave P. and await his response. I'll update the group accordingly.

Cheers,

Jon
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Steve P
December 9, 2016, 6:04pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Steve P
I`ll be doing the CV conversion on my 2.5 Vitesse soon,its a MK 1 so a little more involved.
I don`t fancy losing a wheel complete with shaft and hub attached.
Steve


Sorry for quoting myself but i must have dreamed this would happen because, it DID on the 2012 RBRR,complete with hub and wheel still attached...

Did the Rover/Volvo(MR Jones) conversion and its excellent.If only he was still doing them because i would do my 1500 Herald.
Steve


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
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Dogsbody47uk
December 9, 2016, 8:00pm Report to Moderator
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I'm fitting Cv conversion to my Mk2 Vitesse for the following reasons; Rotoflex couplings mask wear in the UJ, so you get no warning, they just let go. It,s no fun! AMHIK; The price of a new rotoflex (I assume good quality ) from Rimmers is £250 each. Aftermarket ones are £35 or so and generally don't last. You pays yer money and takes yer choice! Cheers, Dave.


First Triumph: 200cc Tiger Cub. Followed by in no particular order, 350 and 500 Royal Enfield Bullet, Herald 1200, Herald 13/60, Mini 1275 GT, Vitesse 2L convertible, Audi 80, Audi 80 Sport, Fiat 124 Sport Coupe, Triumph 2000, Mk 2 Estate, Fiat Tipo, Fiat Stilo, Fiat Uno, Peugeuot Turbo Diesel(yuk), Lancia HPE 2000ie (wow! a dream!) So far 3 Heralds and My fourth Vitesse in the garage. I may have forgotten some... It's my age.. Oh , Honda 400 four.. Terrifying! And the 2 Renault 5s. Oh, and the Ford Granada 3 litre estate..I think that's the lot.
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