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DoZ
December 22, 2009, 11:50am Report to Moderator


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Has anyone seen this before?  It appear that my thrust washers have made a bid for freedom.  I found them in the sump.  For some reason it would seem that the main bearing cap is not holding them in place correctly.

With new ones fitted I have about 15 thou end float I think, which according to the book is too much anyway.



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Wolfrace
December 22, 2009, 11:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DoZ
Has anyone seen this before?  .




Just about anyone who's owned a Triumph straight 6!

Welcome to the fun and games of Triumph self ejecting thrust washers.


Too much end float? Did the crank chew up the cap?
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DoZ
December 22, 2009, 12:10pm Report to Moderator


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Thanks "Old Guy".  The cap has been worn.  This photo might show...

Apart from a new cap, which I guess might solve the problem, what are the other solutions?



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cliftyhanger
December 22, 2009, 12:16pm Report to Moderator

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If you change the cap then it will all need line-boring (or something) as all components are matched.
I believe the thrusts can be "pinned" into position. But no personal experience
Normal poceedure on these cars is to use a variety of oversize thrusts until you get as small an endfloat as possible. So if yours are std then order +5 and +10...


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle. Just needs fettling and will be on the road....
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly
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Wolfrace
December 22, 2009, 12:31pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from DoZ
Thanks "Old Guy".  The cap has been worn.  This photo might show...

Apart from a new cap, which I guess might solve the problem, what are the other solutions?




Nasty and can be expensive!

You can get a 'proper' fix from people like Revingtons… not cheap

http://www.revingtontr.com/sho.....rType=TR6&CID=47


but as Clive says, you're going to need the new cap line boring to ensure no nasty surprises like an out of alignment bearing even if you put back standard bearings.

This book covers the problem very well…

http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Im.....261484746&sr=8-1



It may be cheaper to source a replacement block.
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DoZ
December 22, 2009, 12:35pm Report to Moderator


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I am fairly sure that I am not going to like the answer but the wear has meant that the crank thrust face is now not perpendicular to the shaft.  I think this photo shows the problem.  This is going to mean that the bearing area is low  



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Jason
December 22, 2009, 12:41pm Report to Moderator

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Time for a new block and an engine rebuild. Canley's used to have a good stock of used 6 pots but I couldn't see used listed, only recon http://www.canleyclassics.com/.....HT&ptno=B2000MK2
Beware when buying used unless you can take the sump off and assess - "thrusted" 6 pots are common.

Other parts suppliers are available, your mileage may vary and some may contain nuts.


Jason
Reading, Berkshire

TR6, very yellow and not so very low . New interior and carpets are in!.

Still looking for a really good Vitesse convertible.

It's all in the Blog at http://chinn.blogspot.com/

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beefertoo
December 22, 2009, 12:45pm Report to Moderator


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where are you? i'm guessing it's a 6 and if so i've got one going spare im my garage you can have it foc. will need crank doing but if i recall there's little endfloat. (it was leaking oil and i failed to notice the pressure light till too late doh). anyway its in blackpool.

craig


craig��in sunny blackpool

1969 1360 estate....in a zillion bits,only a year late so far

1970 2.5pi, well it would be if it had injection still

2004 focus estate...... waaaaay too new for me
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cliftyhanger
December 22, 2009, 12:50pm Report to Moderator

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Ah, not such good news
engine replacement is on the cards methinks. Always check the endfloat, anything more than a tiny weenie bit is bad!


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle. Just needs fettling and will be on the road....
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly
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DoZ
December 22, 2009, 12:57pm Report to Moderator


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In Southampton, thanks for the offer.  Really gutted as I got the bottem end balanced (at significant cost) when I rebuilt it 18 months ago.

Not sure what to do now, just replaced the diff and got a new gearbox.  Anyone selling a mk1 or mk2 with mint body and nice engine but rubbish diff and gearbox?
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thescrapman
December 22, 2009, 1:16pm Report to Moderator

Colin Wake
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I was going to ask how long you had been driving it with the trusts in teh sump, but the pictures say a long time.

The bottom end is possibly transferrable to another engine after a bit of repair.

the block is scrap, or certainly BER.

Get a block with a good set of bores, quick hone and a new set of rings, transfer over your bottom end if it can be repaired. May need grinding and MGB (?) or Mini (?) thrusts fitting.

Best bet is a replacement secondhand engine.

cheers

Colin


Confuscious he say - To get caught out once is miserable bad luck, to get caught again is just downright fu**king stupid.

Shadenfreude expert and collector of assorted rusty Triumphs on the Essex/Suffolk Border.

2010, 2011 and 2013 CT Navigators Championship winner.

10CR 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011 2013 - RBRR 1990, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012 - Nachtrit 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012 - Chinese rally 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 - HCR 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 (3rd place), 2014.

On the road.
1968 Spitfire Mk3��: 1970 Mk2 2.5PI : 1972 Mk2 2000 manual (The Basildon Banger)
Off the road
1967 Moss Monaco (Mk1 GT6 based) : 1970 Spitfire Mk4 : 1970 Mk2 2000 auto : 1968 Mk1 2.5PI 1968 : 1964 Mk1 2000
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DoZ
January 7, 2010, 7:48pm Report to Moderator


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Spoken to the machine shop that balanced everything for me last time and they are thinking along the same lines as you lot, might be cheaper to start again.  Begining to understand Bruce's pain  

The good news is I can get the 2L that was in the car back off the guy I gave it to and all for a bottle of red.  So I guess its back, off to the shop for
- honeing (re-bore)
- balance? (tempted to say yes)
- head work (will have to follow as funds allow)

Luckly I haven't spent any money on the head for the 2.5 so nothing lost there.

Anything else I should consider whilst I am at it?  If going for a re-bore I have heard some people go quite extreme, any thoughts?  I would like the car to be "a bit quick" and will be taking a hit on torque by going back to a 2L.
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Pete Lewis
January 7, 2010, 8:00pm Report to Moderator

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there is no reason why you cannot build up the worn bearing block with some gentle weld to fettle and reform the worn off lug that keeps the thrust in place ,, done it on a number of engines successfully.
the crank thrust face being worn to the degree shown would need a metal spray and regrind of that journal
and its thrust face ....all do able
even if you end up with a replacement crank the bearing cap is easy to salvage
you wont fit another bearing cap from any other engine and successfully rebore the centre line without some humdinging boring machinery

worth  a thought     Pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been stored without running since 1997 so needs some shake dawn.
location  Luton
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DoZ
January 7, 2010, 8:18pm Report to Moderator


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That's pretty much what the machine shop said.  He mentioned he used to do it quite a lot but no call for it these days.  Anyway he is happy to do it but a balance and hone sounded cheaper by quite some margin.  The expensive bit seemed to be adding weld to the crank then grinding, then it would be re-balanced, so my current thought is why bother.

I guess if it is a similar price then its back to the old question do you go with the rev happy 2000cc or the torque of the 2500cc...
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Pete Lewis
January 9, 2010, 5:24pm Report to Moderator

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just a follow on
http://www.metalock.co.uk/Services/Thermal_Spraying.aspx?source=GoogleEnglish

you have to add metal spray in thin layers , it can be hard and not always easy to regrind, I ceratinly would not want the stresses of trying to build up a crank with weld unless you were stuck in the desert and it was a last resort.
welding some lugs on the bearing cap is easy and can be filed or dremel finished to size.

in the days of a manufacturing country we metal sprayed major diameters on   mainshafts to  stub axles to refurbish production scrap..
I have only done it once on a crank and that was a 1300fwd back in 1970  it lasted 15years

Pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been stored without running since 1997 so needs some shake dawn.
location  Luton
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